Yoga? I hardly knew her! (ThinkPad Yoga Queries)

Discussion in 'Lenovo (IBM)' started by T-ravisty, May 19, 2020.

  1. T-ravisty

    T-ravisty Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Hey all,

    Bare with me for a minute. I'm going to ramble.

    So, I had and still have an x230t, love it. A workhorse that I used and abused but got a bit long in the tooth, primarily for screen resolution. Still used from time to time.

    About 2 years ago I got a ZBook x2 (specs in sig), it does the job.
    I've never had a Surface-style kickstand laptop so figured I'd take a stab.
    I loved the bezel buttons, but I'm just not finding I'm using it nearly as much as I had done my x230t.
    It's annoying to use as a laptop on the lap with the kickstand, the non-DremColour display is average, the battery life is average, and it's heavy to use - particularly when standing.
    So, I figure it's best to pass it along and see what else is out there.

    I've used my partner's Yoga 530 and it's fine, but I want something a little more.
    I'm not a huge fan of the consumer Lenovo line, mainly because of the trackpad - I really grew accostomed to the ThinkPad tackpad and keyboard and trust the build of the ThinkPad line from experience of the x230t.

    Granted the GPU options of the consumer line are great, but for what I plan on doing I don't see it being that much of a dealbreaker as I know how far I managed to push an i5 x230t and I just know the consumer trackpad/keyboard is just going to anooy the hell out of me.
    If I ever need I can always attach an eGPU, but I have a desktop that will do the heavy work.

    Usage Intention:
    - Light Fusion 360, mainly setting toolpaths.
    - Moderate use of the Affinity suite.
    - Light sculpting/sketching in Blender.
    - Setting up files to 3D print in several slicers.

    I'm looking primarily for a second-hand device as this will be going in and out of a workshop environment and I'm just not wanting to spend too much.
    Budget ~AUD $1000-1600.

    I think I've narrowed it to the either an Thinkpad Yoga Gen 2 or 3.

    Main wants from what research I've done:
    - i7 CPU
    - 14" @ 2K screen
    - 16GB RAM
    - Backlit keyboard
    - Matte Screen (not a deal breaker)
    - 256GB storage minimum

    What's around on the second-hand market in the moment, order of what I think is best to get:

    ThinkPad X1 Yoga Gen 3: AUD - Price TBC (ebay auction)
    - Intel Quad Core i7-8550U, 4.0GHz
    -14.0" WQHD (2560x1440) 270 nits IPS, AR (anti-reflection), touchscreen
    - 16GB Soldered LPDDR3-2133
    - 512GB SSD M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe
    - Integrated Intel UHD Graphics
    - 720p HD and IR Camera with MIC
    - Lenovo Warranty: 300 days

    Thinkpad X1 Yoga Gen 2: AUD $1000
    - CPU: Intel Dual Core i7-7500U, 3.5GHz
    - Storage: 512GB M.2 SSD
    - RAM: 16GB
    - Graphics: Intel HD Graphics 620
    - Screen: 14" WQHD 300 nits IPS LCD Display (2560x1440), touchscreen
    - No warranty

    A BIG FAT MAYBE:

    ThinkPad Yoga 460: AUD $1440
    - Intel Dual Core i7-6500U, 2.5GHz
    - 16GB 1600MHz DDR3L SoDIMM Memory, Soldered
    - 256GB M.2 2280 SATA 6Gb/s SSD, Expandable
    - 14.0" WQHD (2560 x 1440), glare, LED backlit, IPS, 300 nits, touchscreen
    - nVIDIA® GeForce® 940M, 2GB DDR3
    - Intel Integrated HD Graphics 520
    - Lenovo Warranty: 2 Years

    Thinking the Yoga 460 is getting a bit old, but I wonder if the GPU could be a handy addition, plus the warranty time.

    I'll keep an eye out for other listings too, but I think this pretty well surmises the Australian availability.
    The higher specced CPU and 2K screen options of these models are relatively scarce here.
    500nit Gen 3 is most probably a unicorn.

    Anyway, what is the collectives thoughts on these models?

    Cheers. :)
     
  2. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    I can't give collective thoughts, but my personal thought is: stay far away from the X1Y3 unless it comes with warranty (edit: I see it does :thumbsup:) and you can easily get to a service center. Reason: I had tons of issues. That being said, just in the past few days I've been cheerleading for the X1Y4 which has a huge discount in the US, not sure if the discounts are worldwide though.
     
  3. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I never had any of those...but I would go with the Gen 3 with the 8th gen core. That will be the closest to the Zbooks performance. The 7th gen looses the quad core, and the 6th gen is definitively on the fence of too old. And the 460's discrete graphics option probably wouldn't be all that much better then the 8th gen intel UHD graphics anyway.

    And so long as the pen has the silo, you would have Wacom AES.....not as good as the zBooks EMR....but it should be considerably better then the bottom of the barrel MPP N-trig that Microsoft is supplying many OEMs with.

    But also have you considered Samsung's products like the Galaxy Book Flex or the Samsung Notebook 9 Pen? I'm not sure of their availability down under or price (the flex is newer so it would be quite pricey I imagine) but they are Yoga styled laptops with Wacom EMR. Its the same digitizer used in the Zbook X2, so you would be able to use the zBook x2 Pen.
     
  4. T-ravisty

    T-ravisty Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Unfortunately the X1Y4 isn't an option at the moment, getting it specced with an i7/16GB/WQHD/256GB tally's to AUD $3441.65 (USD $2254.14). Over double what I'm willing to fork out at the moment unfortunately.
    That's with a supposed AUD $607.35 (USD $397.79) discount.

    Good to hear the feedback, and a shame to hear you had so much drama with your X1Y3.
    Something I'll definitely consider. From majority of my reading the main issues that arise is in relation to throttling or paint flaking.

    That was my logic to it too.
    I figured by the time the specs of the outdated CPU and GPU were compared to that of an 8th gen quad core it wouldn't be worthwhile the growing age of the 460.

    After dabbling with the 530, I can live with the AES, I find the overall feel of the performance very similar to the x230t.
    The ZBook x2 if brilliant, love the pen, but I'm just not using it enough to warrant the trade-off.

    The Samusung products aren't available in Australia unfortunately.
    Across the board we really do have limited product availability here, either that or an exorbitant price tag.

    I'll also note that I totally forgot about Windows scaling being a thing.
    I think using the 530 it was on 125%, I'll have a look later. If I can scale that back it may suffice.
    I may get by with a 1080p 13" display, but I'll have to trial out. It was feeling relatively cramped.
    If that's tolerable, then that may also open the L380/390 and X380/390 series as possibilities, the user upgradable RAM is a huge plus for the L-series.
    Each selling for AUD ~$1500 (USD ~$982.44) with 8550U/8650U/16GB/256GB.
     
  5. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I can't help but find it kind of odd Samsung has no PC presence in Australia.....I mean its a South Korean Company....and from my own travels all across Asia...Samsung products are quite plentiful.....just from the relative proximity, and given the large Asian populations that reside in Australia...you'd think 2nd hand or used models from the Asian Markets would have trickled on down-under.
     
  6. T-ravisty

    T-ravisty Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Yeah, I just had a more thorough look and there's bugger all available.
    Galaxy Tabs for days, but none of the big retailers stock the PC variants nor is there much on the used market.
    Samsungs Australian web-store doesn't even stock them.

    It's not just limited to that though, we often get limited customisable options than that of the rest of the world - or if and when they do become available it's often much later on in the products lifespan.
    This is pretty much true for all manufacturers selling in Aus. Baffling really, but I guess there's market researchers and economists who have their reasons.
     
  7. T-ravisty

    T-ravisty Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Okay, so I found out my partner had the Windows Scaling on her Yoga 530 set to 150% - no wonder it felt like using a 1366 x 768p screen.
    I reduced it to 100% and also to a slightly more comfortable 110% and I think that opens 1080p models to me quite comfortably.
    Spent a bit of time doodling and it wasn't too bad.
    Some of the software I use just doesn't scale to 4K properly.
    I'm now looking at the L390 Yoga as I can get it new for AUD $1500 (USD $984.28).
    The upgradable RAM is probably the selling point for me now. Will probably have to throw in a backlit keyboard though, I'm a real stickler for that.

    Thinkpad L390 Yoga - Silver
    - Intel Core i7-8565U 1.8 GHz (8M Cache, up to 4.6 GHz) Quad Core CPU
    - 13.3" (1920x1080) Touch Anti-Glare Display
    - 8GB DDR4 SODIMM Memory
    - 256GB M.2 PCIe SSD
    - Integrated Intel UHD620 Graphics

    Lisa's review has swayed me towards it, and the fact I can get one new for the price that most of the used i5 X1Y2's got for here I think I'm convinced.



    As much as I appreciate laptops/TPCs becoming thinner and lighter, the less options for being user serviceable is disheartening.

    Going to be odd with a silver Thinkpad though, I kind of wish I could get the L390 Yoga in black, just because of it being a Thinkpad, but that option isn't available unfortunately.

    Anyway, I'll give it another week or so to ponder and sell off the ZBook x2 and I'll see what's on the market, more than likely I think I've settled on the L390Y - primarily for cost/availability in Aus, and the fact the X1Y3 that was going for auction has jumped to AUD $1500 (USD $984.28) with 3 days to go, easily going to go out of my budget.

    EDIT: @darkmagistric

    For a case-in-point for the limited nature of even the L390Y in Australia, these are the apparent options we had available.
    Namely only available in silver and without a backlit keyboard.
    This may however of been different when they were still in production, but it's not uncommon for options to be limited here.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
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  8. franzander

    franzander Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I had the Yoga 460 with an i5 CPU and the 940M GPU for about 3 years and was quite happy with it (mostly writing, presentations, some gaming in spare time). I sold it on last year. Of course it is quite old by now, both in terms of specs and design, so it's probably only an option of you get a good price and are fine with the limitations of the older CPU. The GPU should still be an upgrade over the usual Intel UHD-620 integrated graphics, I guess.
     
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  9. T-ravisty

    T-ravisty Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Was considering it, but a few factors has swayed me towards the L390.

    - Dubious eBay listings
    - Price difference of used Y460 and new L390.
    - RAM soldered (available listings are 8Gb which is too little) vs user upgradable.
    - Age.

    I figure for the limited usage I'll be doing on it back and forth between my desktop, the specs of the L390 will be fine.
    I managed to push the x230t to the extreme, so I should be okay.
     
  10. franzander

    franzander Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Yes, I'd probably also go for the newer device if you don't find a good deal on the Yoga460. Just one little correction though, the 460 has one regular RAM socket, I had actually upgraded mine to 16GB. (Don't know if the L390 is actually dual channel, that might be an extra advantage, as I think the 460 had single channel RAM)
     
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