What is your limit for a compromise?

Discussion in 'The Tablet PC Life' started by Kumabjorn, Jan 7, 2018.

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  1. Selofain

    Selofain Chronic Lurker

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    Honestly, the Zbook x2 challenged my previous assumptions about what my deal breakers and compromises are.

    Things I absolutely will not compromise on:

    - 16gb ram. It's what I have now, so anything less is a step down. Also, I definitely need way more than 8gb.

    - 13 inch screen minimum. The bigger the better.

    - quad core. See ram for reasoning.

    Things I think are deal breakers but honestly, I don't know anymore

    - Digitizer. Wacom EMR all the way! Buuuut... maybe MPP or AES have finally reached parity? It doesn't quite sound like it, but I haven't been able to give either tech a full trial in their most recent incarnations.

    - aspect ratio. 16:9 is still mostly a deal breaker. The Zbook x2 is the only 16:9 machine I'll seriously consider, but only because it offers so much. 3:2 screen ftw!

    - fingerprint reader. Not sure what to say about this. I'm contemplating whether picture login is sufficient to replace a fingerprint reader. But I still think fingerprint readers are bomb. I want one. I love mine. If I'm going without, the rest of the machine had better be amazing.

    - user serviceability. /looks at market and quietly weeps/ My T901 would definitely not have met my needs as long as it has (and still does) if it wasn't super serviceable. Putting a quad core in there definitely breathed some new life into it.

    - Ports. This usb-c thing is both a curse and a blessing. It's an amazing port, but manufacturers have taken it to mean that it can be the only port. This port means that I have to factor in a $200 usb-c dock into the cost of a new machine. And if there's only one usb-c port, there is no way you can convince me that it's not a single point of failure.

    - dGPU. With Thunderbolt 3, I'm not sure this is as necessary anymore.

    Things I can compromise on that other people apparently can't

    - weight
    - battery life
    - screen brightness
    - screen resolution

    Things that used to be a deal breaker that I have given up on

    - pen silo

    Anything not listed above is a non-factor as far as I'm concerned.
  2. dv8nathan

    dv8nathan Pen Pal - Newbie

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    no compromise

    charge via any usbc (not like MSP16 very specific charger) (TB3 preffered)

    16:9 15inch+ 3:2 13inch+

    Backlit keyboard


    7hr+ battery

    Quad core

    Bad heat dissipation(to hot in lap)

    High pitch fan(fujitsu t904)

    Weight less than 4lbs

    built in method for standing(Swivel, detatchable, clam/yoga)

    Day time viewable

    screen mirroring/miracast capable

    windows 10

    256gig+ or user swappable

    !SILO’D PEN!(years of fujitsu pens has me spoiled)even attatched like surface line pen always seemed in the way when holding in tablet style

    Can compromise but would like



    Good Color accuracy


    Chiclet scalloped keys

    Lots of I/O ports

    prefer clam/yoga with retractable keys

    rocker button and eraser programable(touch/feel drivers)

    bluetooth keyboard if detachable

    on the fence of must have

    TB3(Preferably 2)getting by without it on NBP9 15 but have EGPU id really like to make use of as home dock.
  3. Starlight5

    Starlight5 W I N T E R B O R N

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    Here's mine.

    No compromises:

    * FHD or better display resolution
    * Upgradeable SSD
    * 16GB RAM if soldered, a slot or two preferable
    * Upgradeable WLAN
    * Quad-core Intel CPU
    * AES/EMR/Ntrig pen (in order of preference)
    * Very good keyboard
    * Battery life over 6 hours Wi-Fi surfing according to Notebookcheck
    * Fingerprint scanner, TPM

    Almost no compromises:
    * Trackpoint
    * Easy to source parts
    * Detailed hardware maintenance manual, or at least complete disassembly instructions
    * 350+ nits display brightness
    * Matte/semi-matte display surface
    * Weight less than 1.6kg/3.5lbs
    * Display size 13.3" or less
    * Business-class build quality and reliability

    Can compromise but would like:
    * WWAN
    * TB3
    * Yoga form-factor with retractable keys
    * Affordable pricing
    thatcomicsguy and Kumabjorn like this.
  4. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Animator and Art Director Senior Member

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    fun topic!

    Will NOT compromise:

    Wacom EMR
    13" + screen with 90%+ Adobe RGB
    i7 quadcore or at least full voltage dual core CPU (2.6 ghz base clock min.)
    16+ gigs RAM
    Dedicated GPU (going forward)

    WILL Compromise:

    weight (I'll trade power/thermals for weight any day)
    battery life
    keyboard quality
    pen silo
  5. Kumabjorn

    Kumabjorn ***** is back Senior Member

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    Hopefully some of those responsible for product development will come by and check this out. This is market research gold, if you ask me. The difference between a note taking tablet and an artist's tablet becomes very clear.
    azaniramsan likes this.
  6. azaniramsan

    azaniramsan Pen Pal - Newbie

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    There is also a dilemma for manufacturers.

    Artists are just a small portion of the buyer. Surface pro for example, the majority of its users are not using the stylus for work, instead, for casual uses such as note taking.

    Casual users instead of tb3, good screen, strong cpu, dgpu, they would prefer battery life, weight and thin which most of us here can compromise. Price is also a major concern, for example, adding a simple tb3 port would cost them licensing fee. Cmiiw.

    The challenge is not to make a perfect dream machine, because I'm sure manufacturers can do this; instead, to make a device that can be accepted by everyone and *sells well*.

    For manufacturers that make devices designed for artists/professionals such as msp, Zbook, and canvas, data in this topic would be very useful. But for those who wanted to make device for the masses, they also need to look at the perspective of the casual users.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
    Starlight5 and Marty like this.
  7. Kumabjorn

    Kumabjorn ***** is back Senior Member

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    I understand where you are coming from and I think most manufacturers are still stuck in that mode. But if someone really tried to satisfy the artist crowd and make a tablet speaking to their needs they'd be able to sell it for years. An occasional CPU, GPU and storage upgrade, is all they need.

    Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk
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  8. doobiedoobiedum

    doobiedoobiedum Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Don't want to throw a spoiler into this but I would rather prefer that Intel pushed modular CPU compute cards as hard as possible. I don't intend to post my no compromise list as I don't see it relevant to what I would really want. I want someone in product development to take a calculated risk and look at the future of Intel Compute type scenarios as well as traditional laptops.

    Flash type memory is now on small cards / graphic cards could be reduced to similar and Intel have proven the concept of a CPU, RAM and storage on a credit card sized item. Why not have the very best stylus input screen as a modular piece of kit that both note takers or artists could use - personalising with compute cards (or similar) as suits personal need.

    My personal ideal would be a range of very high quality accurate screens at different size (for different users) with as many I/O ports as possible that had docks for as many Compute cards as possible. Then if a user wanted to upgrade to the latest processor they would swap out a card or if they wanted more capability they could swap in a dedicated graphics card or SSD card or extra memory as required.
    Starlight5 and Kumabjorn like this.
  9. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    The interesting thing if you've noticed is that manufacturers (MS, Dell, HP) are increasingly targeting high-end, enthusiast/professional devices, because: 1) they make for great marketing (show floors, ad demos, internet buzz); and 2) that is where the PC margins are, now that smartphones/tablets have taken out a chunk of the lower end laptop market.

    Believe it or not, I believe OEMs are actually paying attention to lists like these for evaluating their next product cycles, and that has significantly shortened the time-to-market for various high-end components:

    Just look at the pace of adoption of Thunderbolt 3: one year ago, no-one had it (or it was just USB-C with uncertain specs). Now, everyone has full, fat x4-lane TB3 on their high-end devices (except Microsoft :p). It's amazing.

    Discrete GPUs in tablets? That was just wet-dream for artists for 20 long, aching years....But in the short span of one and half years, the 2-in-1 market is now flooded with pen-enabled, 3D capable convertibles/slates. This is craziness!

    So I say, keep this list coming people! :D
    Selofain, stoneseeker, JoeS and 2 others like this.
  10. azaniramsan

    azaniramsan Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I'm very skeptic for these modular concept (at least for now). There are lot of things to sacrifice by going modular.

    -no high performance component. Imagine where the heat goes by using these modular cards. Overclocking is out of question. Oems successfully designed an efficient cooling system by utilizing direct contact to the chip and custom design cooling system.
    -compactness. Modular means there are slots to accept the component, which takes spaces by large margin (also more weight). One of the reason why ram are soldered into the motherboard.
    -the most important thing, the only party that benefit from these modular stuff is the module maker. Intel, amd, Nvidia, Wacom, etc.

    Here were are talking about laptops, tablets and ultra books. Which I doubt will embrace modular concept anytime soon. I don't expect this will happen but it doesn't hurt to dream that someday it will happen.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
    Starlight5 likes this.
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