wacom's newest tabletPC driver issues!

Discussion in 'Fujitsu' started by stoneseeker, Oct 12, 2012.

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  1. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Animator and Art Director Senior Member

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    Like you, I have it working at a very useable minimum glitch rate, and I suspect it's due to the Fujitsu startup services I disabled like you did in your post a ways back. Because now I can run massive files and multi-task to my hearts content and it doesn't seem to increase the rate of glitch at all. The only program to guarantee a more frequent glitch is Flash for some reason, but still totally useable. It does seem to happen more when entering menu's, switching programs, pressing buttons... essentially whenever the cursor changes or the driver switches hands (windows API to Wacom wintab)
     
  2. jan_c

    jan_c Pen Pal - Newbie

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    They made an undocumented change to the calibration. The previous drivers' calibration points were slightly inset (X = 720~28818, Y = 720~15962), while the new one uses the actual corners (X = 0~29576, Y = 0~16724). (Technically speaking, they changed the X/Y expected values, which I attempted to explain in my calibration utility.)
     
  3. Plognark

    Plognark Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Just noting this for future reference and for myself and anyone else interested in debugging the Wacom firmware installer. This is the result from a Linux lsusb command:


    Bus 001 Device 003: ID 056a:0101 Wacom Co., Ltd
    Couldn't open device, some information will be missing
    Device Descriptor:
    bLength 18
    bDescriptorType 1
    bcdUSB 1.10
    bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
    bDeviceSubClass 0
    bDeviceProtocol 0
    bMaxPacketSize0 64
    idVendor 0x056a Wacom Co., Ltd
    idProduct 0x0101
    bcdDevice 1.15
    iManufacturer 1
    iProduct 2
    iSerial 0
    bNumConfigurations 1
    Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength 9
    bDescriptorType 2
    wTotalLength 59
    bNumInterfaces 2
    bConfigurationValue 1
    iConfiguration 0
    bmAttributes 0xe0
    Self Powered
    Remote Wakeup
    MaxPower 0mA
    Interface Descriptor:
    bLength 9
    bDescriptorType 4
    bInterfaceNumber 0
    bAlternateSetting 0
    bNumEndpoints 1
    bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface Device
    bInterfaceSubClass 0 No Subclass
    bInterfaceProtocol 0 None
    iInterface 3
    HID Device Descriptor:
    bLength 9
    bDescriptorType 33
    bcdHID 1.11
    bCountryCode 0 Not supported
    bNumDescriptors 1
    bDescriptorType 34 Report
    wDescriptorLength 226
    Report Descriptors:
    ** UNAVAILABLE **
    Endpoint Descriptor:
    bLength 7
    bDescriptorType 5
    bEndpointAddress 0x83 EP 3 IN
    bmAttributes 3
    Transfer Type Interrupt
    Synch Type None
    Usage Type Data
    wMaxPacketSize 0x0040 1x 64 bytes
    bInterval 7
    Interface Descriptor:
    bLength 9
    bDescriptorType 4
    bInterfaceNumber 1
    bAlternateSetting 0
    bNumEndpoints 1
    bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface Device
    bInterfaceSubClass 0 No Subclass
    bInterfaceProtocol 0 None
    iInterface 4
    HID Device Descriptor:
    bLength 9
    bDescriptorType 33
    bcdHID 1.11
    bCountryCode 0 Not supported
    bNumDescriptors 1
    bDescriptorType 34 Report
    wDescriptorLength 914
    Report Descriptors:
    ** UNAVAILABLE **
    Endpoint Descriptor:
    bLength 7
    bDescriptorType 5
    bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
    bmAttributes 3
    Transfer Type Interrupt
    Synch Type None
    Usage Type Data
    wMaxPacketSize 0x0040 1x 64 bytes
    bInterval 5
     
  4. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Animator and Art Director Senior Member

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    ok, so I think I may have discovered something a little crucial that we touched on a bit earlier, but I can now confirm in confidence. It also explains why Shogmaster and myself would experience this issue far less than others.

    When I draw I almost always put on a thick cotton glove on my drawing hand that covers my pinky and gives my palm a more smooth surface to glide on. I also use a laptop riser to elevate the T902 in tablet mode to draw more ergonomically on.

    So I noticed last night when I decided to draw on the T902 uncharacteristically without my glove or riser that the glitch was happening waaaay more often than normal. In fact as often as you guys have been describing it, once every 30 seconds or so, pretty terrible. So I put my glove back on , and voila! back to almost never happening. take the glove off, frequent again.

    wierd?? Does this suggest that the firmware is misinterpreting or screwing up the data sent/recieved when touch and pen are happening even when touch is turned off?? Why else would the glove make a difference?

    Anyway, as a temp workaround, buy a glove!! Smudge guard makes a good one, but I just cut up the cheapest glove I can find. It still can register touch through the glove, it doesn't block the touch completely, just shields a bit better than nothing, hence why I stil see the problem occasionally. I know this cause I can still turn on touch and see my pinky interact a bit with the touch screen, albeit difficult.

    Does this info help narrow anything down? If there were any way we could shut off all touch at a deeper level I have a suspicion we would lose the issue. Of course it would be far better to fix the firmware, but as a temp workaround for artists who don't need touch....
     
  5. Plognark

    Plognark Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Yes, this is helpful. It confirms results I've experienced.

    Even with touch disabled, we're only disabling it at the driver level, so the firmware is still doing its thing and logging all of the touch data to send on to the operating system. It doesn't care what the OS does with it after it's sent. I've done some tests just holding my hand above the screen and haven't gotten the glitch as much, but it does still trigger now and then. I think that this is a big part of it though.

    The extra touch data may be overloading a buffer somewhere, or maybe the code just sucks. If the panel couldn't handle the data rates I'd expect that it would generally have bad performance, not this weird intermittent packet glitch thing.

    So I think that the Wacom screen should be able to handle this as far as the hardware goes, it just needs better code.

    I'll reactivate touch and see if more packets come through on a usbpcap log.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  6. jan_c

    jan_c Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I use a cotton glove too -- it's one of those you use at the library (http://amzn.com/B005K08G1U) -- but it's thin, so touch still registers (I can confirm through the driver diagnostic screen and USBPcap). I'm gonna have to find a thicker one to test with!

    Edit: Okay, I went to the hardware store on the way home from work and bought a heavy cotton glove. The driver panel reports no touch traffic. After testing it this evening, I found the glitch happens less, but is not completely gone.
    No glove -- average time until glitch: 33 secs
    With glove -- average time until glitch: 2 mins 51 secs

    Edit #2: I've also sent my USBlyzer logs to the Fujitsu rep and he's forwarded it to the engineering dept.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  7. Plognark

    Plognark Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Have not abandoned the effort, just been busy the last few days.

    I may have a working, if slightly ridiculous "fix" for this, but I won't know until I get home tonight and start dismantling things.

    I was poking around trying to find out more information about the hardware in the T902, and I found something interesting. The touch screen and the active digitizer are separate physical devices. You can order each one as a separate part on ebay.

    If I understand the developer manuals from Wacom, each part has a baby board (their description, not mine) that is then linked by cable to an interface board.

    My absurdly simple idea is to open it up... and unplug the touch screen.

    I don't know if there's anything set up in the firmware or circuitry that will freak out if it's not plugged in, but since each sensor screen is a discreet component, I'd be surprised if the whole thing would stop working if one cable was unplugged. The cables are tiny, thin little ribbons, so I'll probably just put some electrical tape over the connection ends so nothing shorts out.

    I know it's insane that it's come to this, but that's a whole different discussion. My goal right now is to just get the stupid thing to work as advertised. This will also give me a chance to get good photos of the boards to understand how they're made and what IC's are on them.
     
  8. Plognark

    Plognark Scribbler - Standard Member

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    The guts of the screen!

    IMG_0234_opened_up.jpg

    opening it up wasn't horrible, but you will need a hardened steel 'poker' of some sort to unlock the tabs that hold everything together if you want to follow my mad scheme here.

    Hopefully this is something we can figure out through firmware rather than hardware so no one else has to do this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  9. Plognark

    Plognark Scribbler - Standard Member

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    This here is the actual Wacom board for the active digitizer (the pen part)

    IMG_0230_wacom_board_1.jpg

    The other board was actually hidden behind some silver tape. You can see the yellow-orange ribbon coming off of it: That's the connection ribbon that links to the touch panel.

    IMG_0217_behind_the_silver_tape.jpg

    I did find a somewhat unexpected complication. Well, I always expect complications, so maybe not that unexpected. The active digitzer is chained into the touch display's board, which then connects by cable through the hinge into the main body of the machine. I haven't opened the body case up, but I presume that these are the 'baby' boards outlined in the hardware specs, and that the main board is in the body of the machine.

    I finally finished this up at like, 12:20 AM, so I didn't have time to see if the touch digitizer could, in fact, be unplugged, but the fact that they're chained together makes this a lot less likely, especially since the stupid touch panel is the intermediary between the active digitzer and the main board.

    On that last pick the tiny blue ribbon connector is coming in from the active digitzer board.

    The silver wrapped cable I'm holding out of the way is what runs through the hinge and into the body.

    Sorry I don't have a clearer pic of the active digitizer board yet; I'll try to get one tonight, for whatever it's worth.

    I'm going to take a closer look at the ribbon cable for the touch panel, but I'm not optimistic that it can be unplugged or disconnected without doing serious damage now that I've had a good look at it. I'll probably close the screen back up and move on to open up the body and get a look at the main board for the Wacom array. That should get the data feed from these daisy chained boards and then translate it to USB readable packets. That's where the firmware would be installed.

    It's very interesting that they're daisy chained together. I don't think that the board is missing any data, so I don't think the touch panel is swamping out the pen information. I think that the firmware isn't coded properly to handle the amount of data coming in from something like a palm resting on the capacitive screen. That's a ton of extra signal info it has to deal with, and it's clearly not handling it right.

    ...

    I will say that one possibility is that we could bypass the active digitizer with an intermediate cable. I'm looking at the connectors and the design and layout of the boards. The active digitizer board has a pretty tight layout. This is older tech that Wacom has had around for a long time. The capacitive touch stuff is pretty new. You can see that the touch panel board is less tightly designed.

    Based on my experiences with the T5010 with only an active digitizer, I wonder if they added the touch panel interface board as an afterthought. That would kind of make sense with the daisy chain thing here... they could use existing older active pen digitizer boards without having to fabricate new ones and just put the touch board in the middle. Tweak the firmware on the main board to interpret new and different types of data signals from the intermediary device, and away you go.

    ...

    If I'm lucky, the blue ribbon from the active digitizer lines up pin-for-pin with the silver output cable. That means the touch digitizer could be taken out of the chain, and just run a direct connection from the active digitizer to the main Wacom board.

    I'll have to take a closer look and make sure the pin counts between those two actually match. If they do this might work. If not, well, on to the next scheme :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  10. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Animator and Art Director Senior Member

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    you are a brave man.

    Thanks for the pics! Let us know how things progress. I would hate to have to physically take apart the T902 to disable touch, but this is still helpful to know how to get it open. Is there a chance while you have it open if you could inspect the CPU to see how the heatsink and thermal paste looks? I am curious to see if it could obviously benefit from a fix or new thermal paste. The T902 gets so hot so quick, it makes me think we could get way better performance if we could keep the die cooler. Seperate issue I know, but its one I have considered taking it in for, to see if new better thermal apste would prevent the GPU from throttling so extreme when it reaches 80+ degrees celsisus.
     
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