Wacom's Dual-Protocol Bamboo Stylus coming soon

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by kvoram, Jan 4, 2017.

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  1. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I'd hate to sound like a broken record, but you can't tell the difference in amount of pressure levels after about 64/128. Our hand is not sensitive enough for such feat. We can only notice difference in IAF. and IAF is what everyone ALWAYS confuses as more or less pressure levels regarding pressure sensitive active pens.

    Wacom likes to crank those pressure level quantity each generation to sell replacement tablets to existing customers. It's all nonsense.

    Think about it this way: Imagine you have a stopwatch. It tells you time down to milliseconds. But the manufacture comes out with a new model that tells you down to nanoseconds. Would you see the benefit? No. You already have trouble physically pushing the button to stop the watch in consistent manner in tenths of seconds, let alone milli or nano seconds. You are not fast enough. And you can't perceive time in that level of granularity.

    That's the same with active pen pressure levels in thousands. You can't possibly divide between 1 gram and 40 grams of pressure into thousands of levels by feel. You can't even do it in few hundreds. Or even high double digits Even if you had something huge instead of a tiny pen tip with your fingers to do it to, it would be impossible. Imagine you are pumping air into a tire using a bicycle pump with your arms. You have much more travel and pressure to play with than on an active pen tip. But would you be able to dial in between say dozen levels of pressure consistently with the pump? No. It's stupid nonsense.

    Pressure level quantity increase is the biggest marketing scam in art tablets.

    It's all about the IAF. It ALWAYS HAVE BEEN about the IAF.
     
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  2. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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    Some images:
    (having an image hosting problem; will try to correct this later...)


    Note that the nib has an interesting surface texture
    [​IMG]


    With the "whitish" nib installed, two of these nibs appear to be the same type. Not sure what the third one is like, yet.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  3. YVerloc

    YVerloc Scribbler - Standard Member

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    So so true. So disappointed the new MSFT pen's IAF is 9g. Cmon. They can do better than that.
     
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  4. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ok I'm going to take contrary view here and say, all this talk about IAF is overrated.

    Pressure linearity is the key.

    As you own video shows: :p



    It doesn't matter if you have 1g IAF, if the pressure curve blows past 50% right after activation!

    You need to to be able to control the gradation for a good drawing experience. The difference between high and low IAF is like adapting between a 2H lead vs 2B lead--your hand can compensate after a few strokes.

    However, a nice, deep 1:1 physically-linear pressure curve? Now that's the holy grail of stylus mechanics imo.
     
  5. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    How dare you throw my own video in my face lol. (BTW that pen is pre DTK so had 3 grams of IAF)

    Yes, linear progression of the pressure curve is the key, but that video only demonstrates how difficult to dial in a given pressure with less than 40 grams variance and .25mm of travel to deal with.

    IIRC, Hanvon or someone else use to tackle this issue by having a pen nib that travels about 3mm. You got plenty more room to dial in that pressure. How do think that pen was to draw with? (spoiler: it was TERRIBLE)
     
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  6. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Well......that's unfortunate

    Spend the whole night backing up and freeing space off my Pro 3 so I could install Win 10 on a partition. (which was way more difficult then it should have been)

    Installed.....connected the Bamboo Ink Pen via Bluetooth.....and while the Bluetooth Button itself works for all that Win 10 Ink shortcuts.......the Pen itself.....does not work on my Pro3. I went to Wacom's site and they have a driver for the Bamboo Ink Stylus...I downloaded it....installed it......"No Supported Tablet Found".....so it seems the Dual Protocol Pen.....Does not work with the Surface Pro 3.....and presumably anything from the Duosense 2 N-trig gen....so the Viao Z Canvas, Surface 3, and the Recent ASUS & HP Tablets....probably won't work with this pen either. At least for now. Kind of a bummer.
     
  7. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    You tried switching modes like Steve did right?

    The MSFT Pen Protocol should be compatible across all N-Trig devices from SP3 onwards (as far as I understand)...since Wacom licensed this from MS, there shouldn't be any sort of device limitation.
     
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  8. YVerloc

    YVerloc Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Yeah..., so as the actual pressure ranges linearly from zero to, let's say, twenty grams, the stroke pressure will stay at zero and then suddenly spike to the first polled pressure above nine grams (let's say it catches it at twelve grams)...then the result can hardly be called a linear response, can it. See I'm agreeing with you in a way, just that I'm also saying that the most important part of the pressure curve is the bottom end, from zero up. If any part of the curve needs to be linear it's the bottom. Nobody can accurately press with an exact 9 grams of force, so the start of every stroke is going to be really error prone: either the stroke will start too late, or start too strong. These were both of the gripes I had with the old 10 gram surface pens on the sp3.
     
  9. COGBABY

    COGBABY Pen Pal - Newbie

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    So, can it do hover click?

    From memory this isn't important to you but for me work is painful without it.

     
  10. surfaceproartist

    surfaceproartist Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    @darkmagistric I can confirm the pen works on the SP3 and the VAIO. You have to switch modes by pressing the two side switches simultaneously for two seconds. This doesn't always work right away.

    The Feel driver does not install on MPP devices so there's currently no way to program the pen or adjust its tip sensitivity.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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