Wacom experiencing Hard Times...

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by thatcomicsguy, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. Kumabjorn

    Kumabjorn ***** is back Senior Member

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    Wacom to me is something of an anomaly among Japanese corporations, they have never been about putting the customer first, but competition away. Very un-japanese in that way.

    Digital artist found dead in home. Details sketchy.
     
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  2. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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    A couple of observations that might be pertinent to the discussion.
    • Patents should be thought of as "offensive instruments." They don't prevent another party from discovering the details of your invention; they enable you to sue their pants off if they try to copy it too closely!
    • Inventions involve more than just the detailed description of than idea. Typically, they also involve specific processes or approaches ("art") that are also necessary to realize the best application of the idea. If they're smart, the patentee will not disclose these details in the patent, but keep them documented privately and protected. These trade secrets are the secret sauce and another hedge against patent infringement. Even after the patent expires and competitors attempt to copy it, these trade secrets, if properly protected, can continue to provide the original patentee with a market advantage.
    To our lawyer members: Did I mis-state anything?
     
  3. Azzart

    Azzart Late night illustrator Senior Member

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    Would you mind explaining further this part? I'm sincerely curious to understand what you mean with hdr on windows 10 devices because right now I'm completely clueless. :)
     
  4. rebelismo

    rebelismo Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Samsung seems to be taking the lead with this, and the Galaxy Book looks the most promising to me. I'm not sure what the color management will be like with the HDR tablets/monitors, but it's pretty exciting that these options are finally becoming more "affordable".

    To bring the thread back a bit, maybe Wacom's future is more in licensing out their tech and manufacturing only the highest level premium devices themselves? From my understanding, the Galaxy Book will be the first to feature a licensed pen with tilt and 4,096 levels of pressure sensitivity. Assuming that these types of tablet PCs can be brought to market at a reasonable price, people would still have the option to choose from consumer to prosumer, and eventually to pro.
     
  5. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Technically the Lenovo Mixx 720 is the first to claim that title.....technically.....if you count the (Still unreleased) Active Pen 2 which is supposed to feature the Wacom Gen 13 Specs.....that would include 4096 Pressure Levels, and presumably Tilt.

    The only difference between the Galaxy Book Pens and The Gen 13 Pens is the underlying EMR vs AES tech behind the pen....but from a spec point of view they should be equal. Given how improved this Gen 13 AES pens are supposed to be...( or at least we're hoping they are)....its very possible AES could catch up to or even Surpass EMR.
     
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  6. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Even if AES is improved, if I have a choice I would still pick the EMR Galaxy book in a heart beat because:

    - Samsung was the best at applying Wacom EMR, meaning having both the edge accuracy of AES and the advantages of an (upgraded?) EMR

    -Freedom of pen choice: All EMR panel are cross and backwards compatible, meaning I won't have to pay an arm and a leg to import a pen if I happen to lose it. Most AES pen are 50$+ and are only available in the US or some developed country. Where I live there is a lot of s-pen and not much else and I have to thanks Samsung note line's popularity that I got to buy pen at all.

    -The robustness of EMR panel:EMR panel is a separated panel under the display. While it is the reason for some of its weakness like having to calibrate and thick device, it's obviously fixable considering the accuracy and thiness of Samsung tablet. The most important thing is it's not broken easily where it is (under the LCD). AES on the other hand ultilize the capacitive touch panel on top of the LCD. The touch panel is frequently in contact with with the hand and is a lot more fragile (I have heard plenty story of tablet dropped not breaking the glass but touch broken anyway, or people just cracked a tiny part on the edge of the Surface Pro 3 but end up having the whole touch screen either jumpy or just stop working ). Touch screen is also the hardest part to check for defect especially if pen is optional and you are still waiting for it to arrive in the mail.

    There is a reason i still love the AVTN8 despite its faulty touchscreen cable: Even if touch is lost pen would still be alive and kicking.;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  7. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I'm one of those who broke a screen on a new device.

    This is a huge step back in design. -For a long while, laptop screens were respectably robust. Now they're the most common break point on modern computers and tablets.

    Now.., my old Tecra M4 has a dopey plastic screen which dulls the LCD sharpness a bit simply by existing. But you quickly get used to it, and boy, that thing is NEVER going to break -and the pen is reliable as ever!

    Granted, you can't use your finger and the image quality is miles behind the gorgeous screens we see today. But if said gorgeous screen breaks and you need to get work done.., then what good is it?

    Ugly and Reliable vs Pretty and Delicate.
     
  8. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Acctually that old benefit to EMR more or less no longer applies....especially with Samsung Products. Since the newer S-pens use a new nib assembly, while older EMRs pens would technically work.....varying from pen to pen you would now encounter significant nib to cursor offsets and extremely wonky pressure control. Aside from the stock S-Pen that comes with the galaxy book, they only pens you would be able to really use would be the Note 4/5 s-pens or the EMR Bamboo Smart Pen. All the old school EMR pens and even older S-pens would be unlikely to work in any useful capacity (for art anyway)
     
  9. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Well, at least old pen still works, just not as good as new one. Also this is windows not android so we could always calibrate. This should count for something right?

    In my country where price marked up a lot especially from the US, super complicated custom and unreliable postal service, we just couldn't be choosy and have to pick the next best alernative. If I lost my EMR pen I could go to the local Samsung accessories shop and buy a cheap one (or just one of the EMR pens laying around in my house). If I lost an AES pen it would be either instant game over (if discontinued and not cross compatible like the Toshiba Wrire 2) or long frustrating months of waiting for an imported expensive tiny accessory to arrive.

    @thatcomicsguy
    That's right. I'm guessing it's a reason Wacom never put laminated display or super thin glass that people demanded. After 15 inches it would become much more unstable with constant pressure from a pointed device (the pressure from drawing is obviously harder than touching around the screen). These screen is also very expensive to service, and with more fragile screen come more replacement demand, so that attribute to reason Wacom was slow to update their 22+ lines.

    On a side note, there is a market for non touch Surface pro 3 going on in our country. I'm guessing they took cracked device from the US, replace the top glasses with non touch one and sold them for cheap to be used as mini desktop AIO. Considering the rate of cracked SP3 (just looks it up ), all those returned cracked devices has got to go somewhere. Now if only MS haven't just ditch Wacom EMR, I would have some ridiculously cheap pen-only tablets with a gogerous display to use.:D
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  10. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    This is true for the Samsung Galaxy Note Pro 12.2 for sure!

    I brought one of my trusty little Wacom Penabled wands to the box store to test out the Note, and -surprise- it was all wonky.

    You'd need to add another four or five millimeters in length to the stylus nib in order for it to work properly. -Which could be done as a little DIY project, I suppose, but probably not worth the trouble. Easier to just order one of the countless Samsung options or just stick with the dozens of old Tablet PCs the Penabled standard was made for.
     
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