Wacom Cintiq alternatives - A closer look

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by whazzup, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    An alternate work around...that I wish was more widely adopted would be just to incorporate a battery into the device. Case in the Samsung Galaxy Book 12, that has an EMR digitizer, battery, computer chipset, everything in a under 8mm thick frame. All these display monitors ranging from 9-15mm thick should be able to easily incorporate a battery into them. I could understand on the 20-inch level given how unlikely that sized device would be taken away from home, but everything in the 12-16 inch range is usually advertised in a mobile context anyway, usually with the display tablet tethered to a laptop. Even if they wanted to cheap put on true USB-C, having an integrated battery should still make a single USB connection for display & data possible.
     
  2. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    They cheap out on USB-C so it would be even harder for them to add a whole battery lol. And they would need to add another port /cord for charge= more cost so it's not exactly a single cable solution (unless you are okay with not being able to use it while charge).

    I'm not hot on the idea of battery. Adding battery into anything would shorten the life circle of a device considerably, especially if they apply the ****ty phone/ tablet power controller that would make the device useless once you remove the battery.

    Reading about someone on Reddit perform surgery on their expensive MSP13 to remove bloated battery is scary. Especially I totally don't trust Chinese battery ( which is on a forbidden list of imported items of my froxy btw).

    These monitor can be easily powered by small 5v-2a battery pack if you don't mind the ugly.
     
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  3. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I'm fortunate I never encountered a bloated battery. But I've had the MSP 13 for over 3 years now, and my battery life hasn't atrophied any significant amount yet. As far as shortening the life cycle, even if the battery doesn't hold a charge anymore you, it should still run connected to AC power. And given most of the Wacom alternatives in the under 15 inch class are usually under $500, 3+ years of life seems like a good trade off for the benefit of mobility. Like if you have any aspirations to use it in a coffee shop, bar, classroom, or even a public park, where outlets aren't plentiful, an integrated battery can go a long way. And even in instances where there are outlets, sometimes its just nice not to have all the excessive wires to concern your self with.
     
  4. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    @darkmagistric

    My mother's Chinese tablet had a bloated battery, and the repair shop said that without a replacement battery, the tablet can't be powered even plugged in. Most low power/ mobile device like phone and tablet use that kind of power controller.

    The exception that can run without battery would be tablet with laptop processor like Core M, Core i in the Surface Pro or MSP13/16 that usually required dedicated DC jack ( I don't know if that changed with the switch to USB-C.) I don't know if the Pentium in the Surface Go also fall victim to that charge design, but my mother's tablet was an Atom Cherry Trail with 4 GB ram.

    The thing is we never know what charge design they would use. And also those small monitors can be powered for the long time on a 10000MAH external battery, so you can still use them without power outlet. I use mine plug directly into my laptop, and the set up is pretty clean as long as your laptop have a HDMI and an USB port.

    There is something I'm very curious about the MSP13 I would like to ask you. When use in Cintiq mode (as a Cintiq for another computer), does the processor inside the MSP 13 active during that time, or does Cintiq mode run independent from the processor? If by chance the processor in the MSP died, would it still be able to work as a Cintiq? If The processor is active during Cintiq, would it cause extra heat on the device?
     
  5. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Actually monitors with batteries don't need a full on processor chipset. I have the Asus Zen Touch monitor with an included battery. That device gives you the option to use the battery or usb-c power from its tethered device. And since its a touch screen monitor, it transfers the Touch Data, Video Signal, and Power all by the lone USB-C connection. I've used the USB-C charging many times when the screens battery was dead without any issue. And bloated battery is a different sort of problem then the general decrease in battery capacity with li-ion batteries. Like a bloated battery could exploded on you, but a 3 year old battery with a fraction of its old battery life after 1000 or so discharge cycles would still technically work, even if it doesn't hold a charge it could still operate so long as it was tethered to a power source. I've had many tablets and laptops with completely dead batteries that would still turn on when plugged. I'm not sure how prevalent the boated battery problem is with more of the 3rd party chinese brands, but all the products I've had from HP, Samsung, Wacom, Microsoft, Apple, etc....I've never encountered one.

    As far as the MSP 13...this is something alot of us have wondered for a while. I don't have the Wacom link so I can't really use it in Cintiq mode, and with my USB-C devices like my Zbook for some weird reason it just won't switch into Cintiq Mode. It kind of worked with my Galaxy Book and Surface Go, but I couldn't get the pen itself to work, maybe driver issues, but the Cintiq mode from my vary limited attempts didn't seem up to snuff.

    However I did have the Cintiq Companion 2 before the MSP, and the Companion 2 included the Cintiq cables. The Companion 2 also had an ungodly loud fan, so I purposely aimed to use the Cintiq Mode as a way of bypassing the loud fan, figuring that using it just as a monitor wouldn't require the devices fans to activate. Nope...even in Cintiq Mode the Fans were blaring as loud as they normally do. The collective theory was that the CC2's Cintiq mode was more of an emulation kind deal that would require the devices CPU/Chipset to run it, so in the event of a full hardware failure on the computer end would make the Cintiq mode a no go. But I'm not sure if anyone was able to actually prove that or not. My CC2 died but it was the screen that crapped out so I never had to opportunity to verify that myself.

    Now the MSP 13....has much quieter fans, and in Citniq Mode with my Surface Go or Galaxy Book, the fan is indeed still active. Which would indicate the Cintiq mode could also be running under some emulation mode...but in same turn the current Cintiq Pros (the 20 size range) do have fans in them now. My old 21ux Cintiq doesn't have fans, but I've read complaints from owners of the newer models complaining about the fan noise. Given how warm my old 21ux could get, its quick likely Wacom has started incorporating fans specifically to make the devices run cooler. In that context, the blarring use of the Fans in the CC2/MSP's cintiq mode might be engaged purely for cooling and not because of the CPU being active.
     
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  6. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    That's some great insight on the MSP. How do you use Cintiq mode Btw? When you power up > windows start? > plug usb-c cable and it switch to Cintiq mode > unplug Cintiq mode after use and it would turn off or switch to Windows?

    On 20"+ model, adding fan would be understandable, but 16 and 13 inch shouldn't run that hot ( look at those tablet-thin XP pen). And it looks like even 22 and 24 inch model by XP-Pen do not have a fan. Maybe max brightness of a Cintiq is higher than alternative?
     
  7. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    In case of my Mobile Studio connected to my Surface Go, it was literally just a matter of connecting a USB-C to USB-C cable and the Mobile Studio switched over to Cintiq mode almost immediately. Didn’t even have the Wacom driver installed yet. Yet when I connected to my Zbook, it similarly switched over right away, but the screen was just black.

    as far as the fans on the 20 inch range, I think that’s just Wacom doing that. My 21ux got very toasty after a while, and since Wacom values it’s bulk orders from business and schools more then individual sales, I imagine the inclusion of the fans was their attempt at making the devices cooler.
     
  8. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    And in other news, In a web ad for the Intel Nuc 9 mini computer...they showed off this fantastic looking graphics display tablet. I feel it might just be a concept render, but I really hope it’s not. Compared to Wacoms offerings, the side express keys and next to no bezel on 3 of the sides makes that a very attractive looking display tablet.

    D3C79B91-D770-4837-BFFD-821B7FC33ECB.jpeg
     
  9. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    So Teoh Yi Chie finally got around to reviewing the Kamvas 24 Pro:



    as well as the surprising, the Kamvas 22 Plus, which is looking even better than the Pro 24!



    Between the sleeker design and more stable low angle position, 97% Adobe RGB quantum dot display, near-zero parallax lamination (@8:17), and $400 cheaper ($499 vs $899) the 22 Plus is clearly more advanced model. Huion really hit it out of the park with this one. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  10. Art_N00b

    Art_N00b Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Thanks, Marty.

    When he had the Pro 24 in the lowest position, he only showed instability by touching the outside corner which is where you would never draw and there are no shortcut buttons. It would have been more interesting to see him draw in the lowest position and comment on how it felt. Though I don't think I would use it that low anyway.

    The 22 Plus has a low ppi of 102 whereas the Pro 24 improves to 123. I know that subjectively I find ~100 to be too pixelated for my taste. I know that 147 ppi looks good to me. I'm not sure how low I can go from 147 and still say "looks good".

    So my own preference would be the 22" form factor with QHD resolution on the quantum dot display with perfect lamination. The shortcut buttons I can take or leave. I have none on the Cintiq 22" and feel okay using the keyboard, but wouldn't mind having them.

    The biggest thing that impressed me was the pen performance on both units! It looked better than recent XP-Pens and most importantly, there didn't seem to be anything to complain about.

    The value on either of these is amazing!

    Summary:

    Kamvas 22 Plus
    - 21.5" screen
    - 1920 x 1080
    - ppi 102.46
    - 60 Hz
    - response time 14 ms
    - ports: 2 USB-C, USB-A; cannot use standard USB-C chargers
    - laminated with NO gap
    - battery free pen
    - tilt sensitivity
    - 10 replacement nibs
    - no shortcut buttons
    - advertised 140% sRGB
    - screen is sharp and detailed
    - Quantum Dot Tech for the display
    - no touch
    - matte textured glass surface
    - heat is low / good
    - pen tests went well (taper, pressure, initial activation)
    - drawing tests went well
    - initial activation was especially good
    - brightness is very good and vibrant
    - stability is good in all positions
    - matte surface is smoother than the Pro 24 which is
    -- less drawing friction (bad)
    -- but less color speckle (good)
    - can connect to android devices, but mixed results
    - connects to iPad but only for display, no pen input
    - $499

    Kamvas Pro 24
    - 23.8" screen
    - 2560 x 1440
    - ppi 123.41 (+20% over Kamvas 22)
    - 60 Hz
    - response time 14 ms
    - ports: HDMI, DisplayPort, VGA, on USB-C
    - laminated with minimal gap
    - battery free pen
    - tilt sensitivity
    - 10 replacement nibs
    - 20 shortcut buttons
    - advertised 120% sRGB
    - screen is sharp and detailed
    - can have more tool palettes on the display and still have a good working area
    - no touch
    - matte textured glass surface
    - heat is low / good
    - pen tests went well (taper, pressure, initial activation)
    - drawing tests went well ("fantastic")
    - brightness is okay
    - stability is good except in lowest position
    - $899
     
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