Wacom Cintiq alternatives - A closer look

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by whazzup, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Like most kickstarters, vaporware hell. The kickstarter itself ended, but they still have the January 2020 date listed for release. Somehow I kind of doubt it will ever come out.
     
  2. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes and that's probably for the better. The Surface brand caliber of MPP, Pixelsense is actually pretty good. EMR still has the edge, but from the Pro 5 and up, Microsoft made some significant refinements to the pen tech. And even the pens themselves, specifically the Slim Pen. Microsoft really knocked that out of the park in my opinion, I use it on my Pro 5 find it much nicer to draw with over the regular Surface Pen. Its a shame with the Pro 7, Go2, and Book 3 Microsoft seems to be ignoring it. But as is, the Pixelsense in the Surface line is much much better then the generic MPP microsoft gives to other OEMs, thats like Surface Pro 3 level N-trig. Kind of night and day difference in my opinion.

    As far as Wacom, they had nothing but time and opportunity to capitalize on this market, and in some ways they did with the release of the Wacom One and Cintiq Non-Pro 16. But in both of those cases, thick bezels and overall bigger and clunky device sizes somehow won out with some rather jaring omissions, like not including a battery or touch support. There is no reason why Wacom can't make a Cintiq like device in the under 8mm thick range. Case in point the Galaxy Book 12, which had a EMR digitizer and full computer in a frame smaller then 8mm, a great screen, and multi-touch. Yet they produce the Wacom One, at 15mm thick, crap screen quality, no touch, no battery, and despite including a USB-C port, they rigged it so you can't just do USB-C to USB-C. The Idea of the Wacom One is great, but they executed it horribly.
     
  3. Art_N00b

    Art_N00b Scribbler - Standard Member

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    If "EMR still has the edge" then... I still want EMR.

    Size-wise I'm on a Cintiq 22" and I love the spaciousness after previously using smaller devices in the 12.9 - 15" range. However, the parallax on the Cintiq 22 is f'n ridiculous and I'm looking forward to trying the new Huion 24 and possibly XP-Pen 24, both of which appear to be EMR (no battery) and also bump the rez to 1440.

    I didn't really need the bump in size though. I estimate that if the Cintiq 22 was the Cintiq 20, I'd still be very happy with the size. Not sure about 17.3", but willing to try.
     
  4. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    So Teoh Yi Chie did end up making a comparison video:



    Unfortunately, he didn't have a Kamvas Pro 24 unit to directly compare, he did say the pen technologies behaved extremely similarly from his usage of the Kamvas 16 Pro.
     
  5. Art_N00b

    Art_N00b Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I like most of Teoh's videos but that Huion 24 vs XP-Pen 24 was useless.
     
  6. Art_N00b

    Art_N00b Scribbler - Standard Member

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  7. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Hm, they are based on Shenzhen China. That’s where most electronic of China come from (all the drawing monitors I bought from China came from there as well). If it’s from there then the early bird price might be feasible because I have seen 21 inch Pen and touch monitor (and that pen have tilt and is supposedly EMR based because battery-free ) by local brand sold for around 450$. It would be best case scenario if they used the China EMR variants because that is most likely the panel XP-pen and Huion used. 17” EMR still haven’t appeared in China though, and it’s unthinkable that the part manufacturers would be in favor of an unknown kickstarter group having it first rather than the more established brands like Huion or Ugee.

    Since the panel is touch enabled, MPP would be more cost effective. But they claim “tilt and pressure-sensitive capacitive stylus pen”. Isn’t tilt only available in MS improved N-trig with pixel sense? Has Wacom AES add tilt to its function yet? And they call it “capacitive stylus” that make me question if they actually made research on the subject.

    Elan AES panel would be more cost effective option (I remember someone mentioned a 17” Laptop with AES but without 360 degree hinge that user have to use upside down to draw/write). Worse case would be China home brew Goodix digitizer that is powered by USI. I don’t know if it’s better now but it was horrid last time I used it.
     
  8. Art_N00b

    Art_N00b Scribbler - Standard Member

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    In the comments for the project someone asked about the pen tech and they said "The pen comes with Ananta monitor that supports the MPP1.51 protocol and has 2048 levels of pressure sensitivity. The monitor supports up to 4096 levels of pressure sensitivity and supports the tilt." I thought MPP hit version 2 like 2 years ago. Or maybe there's not much advantage to MPP 2 and it doesn't matter. In any case, non-EMR confirmed. :(
     
  9. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Looked up “MPP1.51” and found a pretty informative page by Microsoft
    https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RE2IO4W
    It’s said that Surface Go use an Elan Gen 6+ panel, that’s surprising. It’s also said that the only two manufacturers currently making penabled touch ICS are Elan and Goodix. That would mean most MPP touch ICS not directly from Wacom or MS are from Elan or Goodix? The whole protocol is confusing as hell with Wacom AES mixed in as well.
     
    darkmagistric, Marty and Art_N00b like this.
  10. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well, my fears of this being a pure scam are I think at least put the rest. Now if this product ever gets released is a whole different matter. I thought they did a good job with the video ad they created.

    Kind of surprised this is using MPP, since the ES/Pro Cap Pen method is more expensive the larger screen size you go, I really thought this would have utilized a 3rd party EMR variant given the size. The Larger the ES panel, you'd also have to incorporate a dense touch digitizer grid to improve the performance. That's the primary reason the Surface Studio is so expensive. So given the price of this display, I would be hesitant over the pen performance. At the cheaper end Wacom AES is superior then general MPP in this regard so I would have preferred they used AES.

    However this isn't all bad. At least they are using a reliable and reputable pen technology. They could have opted for a remote, unheard of, knock off pen tech that no one's heard of (like the Apollo). And this should technically be compatible with Surface Pens (hopefully the Slim Pen too), should this actually get released I would totally buy one.
     
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