Wacom Cintiq alternatives - A closer look

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by whazzup, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. robotmonsterous

    robotmonsterous Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I deleted my old post about Yiynova cause I sounded really cranky. I WAS cranky that day. I was having a bad digital tablet day. Anyway I've taken back most of what I said about Yiynova. I still couldn't get it to work properly in w7. Even panda city tech support said you had to use a single monitor for sketchbook, which wasn't going to work. I AM glad Yiynova and the others seems to be getting it together enough to give ole Wacom a run.
     
  2. Burgundy

    Burgundy Scribbler - Standard Member

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    There are seemingly new drivers, i honestly haven't tried them, since the only new thing for me they offer is a 5 point calibration, while the old uses 9 point, but it brings some more utilities for mac users, according to the article, at least.
    http://pcweenies.com/2015/03/23/a_look_at_yiynova_v2_mac_drivers/

    Well Huion's revised model GT-220S/PRO will probably just be a direct competitor to the MVP22u+v3, while the new line of Yiynova 13", 20", and 27", are in a new league, although Huion's approach to ion powered pen I like more except it's shape, the new Yiynova premium pen is more ergonomic, so if they were to be combined, that would be nice, there are after all also cons to batteryless pens out there.

    Also the big question here, should be UC Logic partnering up with Yiynova directly, UC Logic being the digitizer board producer/license giver for Yiynova, Huion, Bosto, and Monoprice(except their new inhouse line, which honestly is ****, see all the problems with monoprice's newest 22hd touch pen displays). How much will this affect the rest, and does this mean the coming tilt function will be exclusive to Yiynova, other than Wacom?
     
  3. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Those old tablets can be quite amazing.

    If you get the right one and max out their hardware and tweak the software, they can be rugged little troopers. -I am regularly amazed at just how capable and useful my old Tecra M4 is.

    I find it is well within its ability range for 90% of the work I do. (Mostly black & white comic pages.) -I recently have been working on a ridiculously huge full color map of a local town, drawn in the "Where's Waldo" style for their tourism department. It's 72,000 x 28,850, which will allow huge blow-ups to near billboard sizes while retaining smooth line integrity. (For reference, that canvas can contain 50 full, press-quality comic book pages). Photoshop is extremely pressed, and the scratch disk is massive and needs to be kept on an external hard drive, but the Tecra is actually able to work with it.

    For my regular day to day comics work, the Tecra flies.

    There's a Tecra M4 on eBay right now for $29. (The only drawback, is that you need to perform a hardware hack on the GPU fan, which due to a manufacturing flaw, never turns on unless you go in and re-wire it.)

    But if you don't mind an old, boxy machine, then last decade's TPCs offer a very affordable way for broke artists to jump into digital art and swim with the big fish.
     
  4. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Holy mother of %$&! I never even dreamed working on something that big. Doesn't it take like 5 minutes just to create a new layer on that thing? :vbtongue:

    I would have caved and gone vector...sir, you have opened my eyes (or rather, made them squint :vbwink:).
     
  5. yuki

    yuki Scribbler - Standard Member

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    having to work with very large images myself all the time (for a cinema 4K aka 4096*2160 master, every texture which could get scaled up *4/8 due to being close to the virtual cam, needs 16000*8000 / 32000*16000, also its typical 4*16 or 3*16+1*8 bit color depth RGBA etc) - i am a bit surprised: if i understood correctly, you paint all that in *one* file?

    the method i usually see is to divide the image into chunks & layers of smaller sizes (upper 20% part 1: sky/distance, lower 30% part 2: water/ambient foreground, med-up part 3 30%: city skyline, medlower part 4: 20% eyecandy vehicles etc, center left 20% part 5: foreground / actress etc etc) in order to keep waiting times absent / minimized, even the film-industry typical 24 / 36 core workstations with their 256, 512, 1024 GB RAM have to munch a bit on 50.000 pix upwards... and the final image usually then is a composite of the individual layers, chunks & parts.

    ... so: is it more practical for your paint-style to not slice & cut the image into parts? isnt swapping reducing the speed of workflow too much? or do you progress rather part-by-part in one layer, and therefore arent affected so much by swapping?
     
  6. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I did a general drawing to block out areas and then broke that down into pieces for detailed processing and inking, and put them all back together when they were done.

    But I've found that so long as I keep it at a single layer, I can still draw and manipulate the whole image without running into memory walls. It's nice to be able to work on the drawing as a single entity.

    For coloring, that changes; the memory footprint gets much bigger. I was ready to break it up again into pieces, but found to my surprise that the whole thing can still reside in memory as an RGB file if I allow for certain features to not work. So why not? Coloring on this project is fairly uncomplicated; I'm basically just flatting.

    It's like working on one of those super-sized coloring pages you'd sometimes get as a kid. It's like coloring the world.

    The only place I find where the hardware limits my process is that I can't work with layers on my 2Gb Tecra, nor can I put down something as simple as a brush stroke or even use the eraser. All I can do is select an area, pick a color and use the various fill tools. Which isn't actually a problem, since that's all I need to do anyway. --On my core i5 8Gb home machine, I can still use all the regular features with no trouble if I want to revisit the line work.

    Saving and loading takes several minutes on either machine, but otherwise, within these limits, it's a surprisingly smooth process.

    I can't wait to deliver this thing! I'll be done hopefully in a couple of days! I've been noodling on this project on and off since last Summer. You can zoom out and see the whole town or zoom in to see individual pedestrians! :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  7. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Animator and Art Director Senior Member

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    cool! I hope your saving backups copies to an external drive as well. Big files that take a long time are scary.

    This for once seems like a strong case for a project made for Mischief, (which you and I were questioning the practical purpose of infinite canvas) but it sounds like it would shine on this. ie: Vector integrity while maintaining organic lines with their unique tools and still managing a large printable workspace within a small file.

    I wonder how Mischief would handle such a large scale and detailed drawing. I've never tried pushing it.
     
  8. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Mischief would have been an interesting option. It didn't even cross my mind. It has the ease of a drawing program with the benefits of vector.

    I wonder what its print/output options include. They must have something which would allow a hard copy.

    Normally when I think, "Vector" I always sort of shudder inwardly, thinking of that incredibly non-intuitive Illustrator learning curve I never seem to be able to scale despite my having blundered through a couple of baffling logo projects. Little control handles getting lost, not being able to work out what does what, or why, and how I did it just a moment ago, but it's gone now and what the hell? Why are there a million control handles in this curve? Did I put those there and how do I erase them without making the whole image screw up..? I should sign up for a community college course and be done with it. Why the hell are there two arrow widgets?

    Then I just start drawing in Photoshop, and it's incredibly easy and I know it backwards and forwards and I say, "Screw it. They're getting a raster image. I'll just super-size it."
     
  9. Burgundy

    Burgundy Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Wow, always thought mischief was raster, explains how the infinite canvas is possible then.
     
  10. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    According to the Mischief user manual:

    You can export .jpeg, .png or layered .psd files, all limited to 20,000 pixel canvas sizes.

    Sounds like it could have been workable. Kind of. I'd still be delivering a final rastered image to the client.

    I find with all these fancy new bits of software, (from MS5 to Mischief), the place where they are really limited is in the area of file types they can load and save in.

    Photoshop has been around for... shoot, like almost 30 years?

    In that time, they've assembled and refined a very impressive array of file formats, compression systems and every conceivable user control and adjustment with each of them. You don't get that without decades of development. After getting used to this level of quality, when you hit, "Export" or "Save" in the otherwise stellar Manga Studio 5, it suddenly feels like you're using a piece of home-brew software you bought from a garage business.

    The new kids on the block, however, don't like their Dad's old pencils and paints, and so they came with *magic*. Magic is good! :)
     
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