Wacom Cintiq 16

Discussion in 'Artists' started by doobiedoobiedum, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I'm just curious guys, has this move by Wacom seriously put it in the "good value" camp for you guys?

    It may be because I'm a cheapo :p, but I take a look at the UGEE UM16 for ¥1299.00 (works out to ~$192), which I'm 95% certain has the exact same display as Cintiq 16.

    Then I compare it to the $649 and I can't help but feel Wacom is still bloody expensive!

    Having owned both Cintiqs and UGEEs, I'm not sure the "transitioning-to-pro" artist would actually notice the difference, unless they specifically used features like tilt/rotation. Isn't the over $450 markup still a pretty hefty "Wacom tax"?
     
  2. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I could think of one other option.......the iPad Pro and Apple Pencil.

    Despite the decades of effort from Microsoft and other companies like Samsung and HP to foster pen computing.......the iPad and Pencil has become almost the default entry way into digitial art. Back in the day.....how often did you hear someone say (online)...."I have a Wacom".....or "I was told to get a Wacom"......regardless if it was a Bamboo, Intuos or Cintiq they were actually referring to.....the brand name Wacom was all that needed to be said.

    But now.......with the Apple Pencil on the market.......I definitely noticed an fairly large adoption of Traditional Artists.....now rocking Ipads and Pencils. The Pros of course know Wacom....but they've been Pros before the pencil. The Art Pros of tomorrow......are starting out with iPads.....and as Full featured programs like Clip Studio and Photoshop come to iOS......"I have a Wacom" will very rapidly become "What the hell is Wacom?"

    It wasn't even that long ago that pretty much all Cintiqs and Tablet PC options were over the $1000 price mark.....under $1000 (new) products are relatively recent. But it was either alot of money for drawing on screen, or get a cheap Bamboo or Intuos.....which to the touchscreen generation just isn't that attractive. So with $1000+ price tags from Wacom.....of course a starting out digital artist will flock to the Ipad.....even at $1000-ish high price tags.

    The iPad Pro and Pencil probably scares Wacom way more then any Chinese Knockoff. I feel that's probably more of a rational for offering a low-cost cintiq.
     
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  3. doobiedoobiedum

    doobiedoobiedum Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    There's the question of the digitiser under that screen. As for good value - I think it's a good move compared to £1500 for the Cintiq Pro 16. Personally I would always get a good cheap(er) screen tablet and have a cheaper 2nd (larger display) screen for colour accuracy and high resolution. I take the point about $600 vs $192 but personally - too cheap can be suspicious for me.

    True but the iPad Pro maxes at 12.9 and most young digital artists won't have the stupid prices the new iPad Pro is going for now. I also have read about 5 months ago that 19" tablets are the biggest selling category and this is currently dominated by Chinese alternatives.

    I will say though that for those artists who pick up an 9.7 iPad 2018 with iPad Pencil - that is a hard to beat price if you can work happily at 9 inches.
     
  4. Burgundy

    Burgundy Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Interesting point. I suppose I was thinking more of the newer 15.6" models, with progression into EMR, such as XP Pen, and now Huion. Their prices ranged more between 300-500 EU, to me. And having played around with the XP artist 15, and eventually coming to the conclusion of, "I'm better off with an Apple Ipad pro 12.9, and hopefully next gent ipad pros.". I was more so taken aback by two factors, in the the recent times.

    1) Wacom Cintiq pro line, being absolutely insanely priced.
    2) Apple's 2018 Ipad pro line, having an increase in price by 20%, or more. with no real increase in screen size or, amount of Ram memory.

    With the CES 2019 announcement of a Wacom Cintiq 16 model, priced at 650$/599EU, is almost like, "Light at the end of the Tunnel", to me.

    I highly believe more than just a few artists, who in the last two years, jumped on Apple Pencil, being amazed by the Apple Pencil, to just be a bit disappointed with the 2018 ipad pro reveal. Starting to again look for something beyond their current ipad (pro).

    I really love my ipad pro 12.9 model, but it won't last, if you could use the screen/ pencil tech stand alone, with your Desktop PC, wired, no lag, that would have been a different story though.

    Alternative pen displays and Apple Pencil tech, both surely played into Wacom finally, releasing such a product, like this, And better yet, full pro pen 2 tech! I honestly would have believed them to cheapen out on the stylus, with such a device, But they didn't. They know what most of people speculated on the most, with alternative tech, and the likes. They did the right choice, and it should be rewarded.

    If the product is of good quality that is, of course. Hopefully there won't be any issues, my most dire concerns, as anyone has, when they order a new alternative.
     
  5. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    But the iPad is portable, an Artist can take it to Class, a Coffeshop, use it on the train during their commute, they can whip it out at a Drink and Draw at a Bar or at live drawing class....then even at home they can use it any room, on the couch or bed, the backyard deck or even toilet if they feel so inclined. That alone adds way more value to the purchase.

    A larger 19+ inch beast penabled screen is fine for a desktop set up.....but just as alot of offices are moving to Open floor plans and adaptable work spaces.....There are alot of artists would value the mobility of a 12-ish incher over a 20-inch ball and chain workstation.

    And even the current iPad Pro prices are totally viable if they buy into the "Laptop Replacement" koolaid Apple is serving. And at the 3:4 aspect Ratio, the 12.9 inch iPad looks bigger then most 16:9 15-16 inch screen devices. And between Surface's and Macbook Airs/Pros........the 12-13 inch size screen is the most prevalent for general laptop/ultrabook use cases.....so jumping to a 12.9 inch for art wouldn't all that difficult of an adjustment. Especially if they are new to digital.
     
  6. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Could you elaborate a bit further? Which digitizer characteristics in particular would you say make up for price differential?

    To clarify my own usage of the UM16 (and later the EX08), I honestly did not notice much difference in the overall stroke responsiveness, precision, or pressure sensitivity. In fact, I slightly preferred UGEEs pressure linearity on the low end, and the slimmer design of their tablets, which are more portable than Wacom's.

    Part of the reason why I'm slightly puzzled by the budget-conscious leaping for joy at this announcement.

    The UGEE UM16 is actually the original Chinese version of the newest XP-Pen 15, with EMR, 8192 pressure levels, 266 reports per second, 5080 LPI and all that... (official specs)

    Ah, this makes sense to me. In comparison to Apple's prices, the Cintiq 16 is quite "generous" ;). But most of the coverage was comparing it to other Cintiq alternatives, which had me confused.

    If they had only added something that Cintiq alternatives definitively did not have—like touch input—I would be ready to jump on the hype train too. But alas, they have only made a "clone of their clones".

    But I take it, this is high on your buy list? I'm very much excited to hear a hands-on review...maybe you'll even sway me to go back to Wacom. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  7. Burgundy

    Burgundy Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Well I directly compared it to both "higher priced" alternatives, and Apple ipad pro ect. But yeah, I would without a doubt have loved a lower price, 500 bucks, and it would be instant buy from most, I firmly believe, since that price would be that of a large intuos pro, in EU at least.

    The Wacom cintiq 16, is indeed high on my buy list. In fact I ordered one, as the rising interest and incoming videos, I speculated a possible 'out of stock'. Along with the fact, I have had a lot of alternatives, they work nicely at first, but there are often times, they go out, and then you either lose money, time, or both. Ironic, as I don't see Wacom's customer service to be anything above average, but I do expect their products to last well over their warranties. As my back up drawing tablet, is an Intuos pro M.

    While on the Wacom Cintiq 16 subject, Aaron Blaise also made a live drawing session with the Wacom Cintiq 16.

     
  8. CreateNowSleepLater

    CreateNowSleepLater Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Mine is on its way. I can at least make the compare with the Pro 16 which I also had and reviewed. I am more interested in the little things, the non-etched glass, is there more parallax without the laminated screen etc. I expect the pen to be flawless.
     
  9. doobiedoobiedum

    doobiedoobiedum Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I think you are mixing your use cases - the type of young artist who challenges themselves sketching from life / nude figure classes is different from the one who is in their room tracing from photographs because thats what their school teacher asks of them.For this - the ordinary 2018 iPad (like I said in my previous) is really good value. A lot of students I work with trace rather than sketch from observation (I'm working hard on that but the school teachers are no help) and they can happily trace art / photographs just as easily at 8 inches as they can at 16 inches.

    I honestly think there will be different take-up between the ordinary iPad and the iPad Pro 12.9. Simple price differential will drive that. I take everything on board about portability etc but I believe price and gaming will drive successful sales. Young artists that I work with tend to be bedroom / classroom bound. Portability isn't the big thing for them. Young professionals however - yeah, they will be in cafes and flexible workspaces BUT Apple's iOS ecosystem needs to step up to make the most of the hardware to make serious inroads from sketching device to production device.

    That's my personal assessment / guess - not having used an UGEE (nor seen any English language reviews) that the quality of components including digitiser, will be better in the Wacom. Wacom can't afford (with the rise in Chinese alternatives) to intentionally cripple the device just as they did the non-Cintiq digitisers that used to go into EMR 1 tabletpc's then yes, I will agree (without testing) that UGEE etc should be better value.

    Luckily, I'm not buying yet as I'm playing with the new zbook so I can let other buyers test Wacom's cheaper Cintiq EMR quality. Are there any reviews of the UM16? (In English?) The 2-3 on Youtube seem at least a year old and as we saw last year - technology moved quite a bit over the year.
     
  10. Burgundy

    Burgundy Scribbler - Standard Member

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    The Wacom Cintiq 16, I purchased, came today.

    [​IMG]
    package size comparison. Reminded me an awful lot like xp-pen artist 15.6 on the outside.

    Initial impressions, are actually quite nice.

    Even though I got the separate stand for free, I'm still using an XP-Pen stand, which I bought when I got the XP-Pen artist 15.6", which also works perfectly for any tablet, ipad pro ect.

    Drawing wise, really nice, the parallax ain't even bad on this, compared to alternatives, so my worries there were quickly flushed away.

    The pen is freaking nice, more comfortable than the Apple Pencil, to draw and sketch with, and the fact of seeing your drawing cursor once more, prior to putting down your strokes, is nice, really missed that. I always loved sketching on the ipad more, and probably still will, but precision is just a different story, but more a software thing, since it's a Procreate thing, rather than stylus alone.

    The texture drawing feel, is there, slightly, it has bite and texture, not on the extreme end of eating nibs up in a day though, I hope.

    Only thing I noticed which I am not sure about, is whether is software, or hardware related. There is slight delay when drawing, akin to heavy stabilizer software, lazy nezumi. Then again there is no form of jitter or staircase, but that slight stroke delay, might affect someone, who sketches really fast, even though it doesn't cut in the stroke, through the delay or anything. Brad Colbow also talked about it in his review, I believe.

    So far, really good, no pressure blowout or anything. Then again, it's first day.

    Really impressed by the pro pen 2
     
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