Wacom about to release a 10.6-inch Cintiq?

Discussion in 'Artists' started by kvoram, May 31, 2017.

  1. Azzart

    Azzart Late night illustrator Senior Member

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    No flaming on my side just wanting to investigate further: how can this sentence still be true today?
    I mean, colors are colors whether you see them on a mac or a pc, what counts is that you have a good wide gamut display (and generally speaking, neither a macbook pro nor a standard pc have one) and you know what you do in photoshop.
    But as I said the new macs have a dci-p3 display while photographers supposedly shoot in adobe rgb which is wider, so you would need a better display on your computer to fully display the range of colors taken by your camera.
    If you go back in time a macbook pro 2015 has an 88% (going on by memory) adobe rgb coverage which is fairly poor as a professional photographer screen.
    There's plenty of last year pc's that reach 95-100% of the adobe rgb gamut though.
    This confuses me..
     
  2. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Actually regarding Tattoo Artists...while I don't personally know any.....my sister is rather big in that scene and goes to convention's and everything....One day over a year back she saw me working on my Cintiq Companion 2......and was all like......"OH I know that thing....I saw a Tattoo Artist using it at the Con!"......My sister isn't exactly tech savy at all beyond her cell phone....and given Wacoms numerous uses of that core 13HD Cintiq design....what she saw could have easily been a Cintiq 13HD tethered to a Mac or something....but I always kind of wondered about the tech needs in that particular sect in the creative world.

    I can understand why the Ipad Pro would be a well liked tablet. Not that I would presume to assume the workflow habits and needs of any artist...but since a Tattoo artist has to recreate what every they design digitally on perhaps the most Analogue Canvas possible....I'd imagine they wouldn't exactly be churning out complex PSD files with hundreds of layers, textures, and filter effects.

    But the Apple Pencil is still young its its life and we've had plenty of Tablet PCs and Galaxy Note Tablets around for quite a while longer.....the Galaxy Notes and some tablets like the Surface Pro can be turned on and off just as simply as an Ipad. Since you're more knowledge with that crowd....what did they use prior to the Apple Pencil? Would it be a reasonable assumption that like with the group drawing circles I encounter....would you say the majority mindset is that most just didn't think or even know digitial drawing was possible till Apple stepped into that game?
     
  3. doobiedoobiedum

    doobiedoobiedum Scribbler - Standard Member

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    As I said previously but probably shortcut and left details out - Windows has largely caught up and you can colour calibrate accurately in Win 10. The problem still largely comes down (no matter how expensive or how many K's come after your screen or how wide the gamut) to the individual viewer's perception.
    That's where devices like SpyderPro or Xrite etc come in. Professional colour calibration companies who serve the creative industry in London are still heavily Mac based and when the guys who do your servicing of your car (using cars as an example) recommend certain tools or tips the industry tends to listen.

    So basically inertia, historical preference etc etc. In my experience and as I said in the previous - both sides of the divide are served well and often work better on specific parts of the creative world. Windows (after Silicon Graphics etc died off) is king in 3D modelling. I would not do movie SFX on a Mac, I would not run Mac render farms etc etc. I'd say video is about equal - it depends on what software works best. Until Apple messed with Final Cut Pro, a lot of major media studios would mainly use Apple because of FCP but many others like Premiere and After Effects which is available on both platforms. The major historical issue is inertia as Macs tended to come with certain monitors where colour calibration was a far easier process and where linking colour profiles to print and production devices was far more smoothly integrated.

    I know many designers who use Macs at work and have cheaper PCs at home - they love both machines but they aren't using their home devices for commercial production design.

    No, you get a variety of tattooists from pure tracers who copy stuff, tattooists who work from copies off the internet and tattooists who create their own artwork from scratch. Most will have a tracing pad / lightbox somewhere and most tattoo supplies are still oriented to supplying that physical media. Quite a few that I know here in the UK use iPad Pros.

    I haven't asked why - but I know most wouldn't have put up with the historical inaccuracy of even Wacom cintiqs which are well documented here in the discussion forums. My opinion is they simply bought into the publicised accuracy, cheapness and portability of the iPad Pro as compared to buying a specific desktop model and large drawing screen. In the UK, a 22inch Cintiq and pre-made desktop (even a gaming one) could cost you around £4-5000 whereas an iPad pro with pro-Create comes in around £1000.
     
  4. doobiedoobiedum

    doobiedoobiedum Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Sorry to digress, I don't mean to derail but in case (and I have read the comments before) anyone is annoyed that Universities and colleges creative departments use Macs when they can get cheaper PCs – it’s not snobbery or fanboyism.

    Hopefully my experience in the last 4 years will explain.

    4 years ago, when our creative dept was doing really well and we were taken over to become part of a bigger organisation, we were all asked about kit, upgrades and needs. The new organisation built a new facility that turned out wouldn’t be big enough for all of us but asked us what we needed.


    My plan at the time was “OK, I’ll be outside the shiny new building but they can compensate my with high end kit.” At this stage – I knew I couldn’t ask for a room full of cintiqs. There wasn’t the money for that.


    Everyone else just specified Mac labs running iMacs or Mac Pro desktops and staff Mac laptops. Being happy using both and trying to make sure there was money left over for scanners / printers / cameras etc we need, I said just give me PCs as long as they are specced the same… I even asked for a room full of Microsoft Surface Pro 2’s (that’s how long it was – they had Wacom digitisers) and an SP2 for myself as my staff machine.

    So what did everyone who asked for Macs get? They all got Macs, even the Performing Arts team who only needed something to watch their student performances on and to write assessments.

    What happened to me? Well, the IT guys got the requests for Capital Bid and searched around. Macs don’t come specced as low as possible so those who wanted Macs got good machines with all their requirements met. The IT guys first step with PC purchases is to look at how the PCs fit with the rest of the organisation – spares and upgrade compatibility.

    I was handed an old PC laptop that the library didn’t need anymore and my wonderful PC lab was specced with machines no different from the no-name ones the finance dept use. The processors are the same and the memory is a standard 4GB. Nobody else has graphic cards so guess what? My machines didn’t even get graphic cards.

    So, my students have a PC lab which they use for internet research / word processing but for digital / creative stuff, we go to the shiny new building and use higher spec machines. Luckily, one of the performing arts tutors resigned from a scandal and I was donated her Macbook Pro.

    The question is – would I ever ask for a PC lab again? No, and I doubt any of you would ever do that if you’d had the same experience. I like and use both PC and Mac but I would definitely ask for a Mac Lab next time.

    Forgot to add: another tutor who like me is happy using PC is disabled and she asked for a PC laptop...

    She got a brick.
     
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  5. Shizaru

    Shizaru Scribbler - Standard Member

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    That sounds like a procurement and communication issue to me. You would have thought that the project lead would have asked you for exact specifications, given the hardware diversity in the PC arena, and the specialist requirements of your department. Someone should have been sacked for that screw up imho.
     
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  6. doobiedoobiedum

    doobiedoobiedum Scribbler - Standard Member

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    To be honest, that would be my fault. Firstly I could have given more steer and secondly if you look at the computing facilities of nearly every major UK arts university, they are 95% Mac based except for the 3D modelling / 3D animation depts. From music and sound production to 2D animation and then graphic design - it's all Mac based.

    Central St martins in London - Number 1 UK Arts university.
    http://www.arts.ac.uk/csm/about-csm/facilities/

    Edinburgh College of Arts - Number 1 Scottish Arts University.
    https://www.eca.ed.ac.uk/facilities

    I was bucking a trend but then as I mentioned previously, the first priority of most IT departments is how any new PCs add and fit with existing equipment. If all the PCs are of the same family, spares and repairs are far easier to manage and support. I know that now, but at the time, I was a bit naive and idealist - I've pushed the cause of tabletpcs for years without success even to PC hardcore IT depts with little luck.

    Anyhow - this is all a long way from discussing a 10.6 inch Wacom Cintiq which is the point of the thread!
     
  7. Shizaru

    Shizaru Scribbler - Standard Member

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    If it's any consolation I appreciate the fact that you tried to buck the trend. It's a pity more people making decisions that involve public funds aren't equipped with enough knowledge to understand what alternatives are available and make wise decisions.
     
  8. doobiedoobiedum

    doobiedoobiedum Scribbler - Standard Member

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    We really should start a separate thread on this!

    I don't personally feel it's an open and shut case that Macs aren't perfectly suited to the job or the most sensible buy in creative arts education. My last 9 years since I discovered tabletpcs has also been spent trying to convince arts students of their worth.

    I can think of 2 students in that time who took to them (one even bought one on my advice) - though this year, more students are coming to me who have already had experience of drawing on a screen.
    Most are still happier using traditional graphic tablets like bamboo or similar - even last year, a really good animator who loved using Flash, didn't like working with a tabletpc.
     
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  9. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Hey doobie, could you give your thoughts on my two earlier conclusions, from your experience as an arts teacher?

    1) Digital artists are still in the minority (~10-15%?) vs traditional artists.

    2) Within the digital artists, they overwhelmingly prefer Apple (~80%?), despite any advantages offered in form-factor or software by Tablet PCs.

    And some additional questions, if you could indulge my curiosity: :)

    3) Among arts students, what percentage would you say are tech-savvy enough to understand computer basics? (eg. CPU/GPU/RAM specs, OS familiarity)

    4) Among the non-tech-savvy crowd, is the primary driving force for them choosing Macs social-pressure? (ie. "Apple is for creative people", "My friends all use Macs", etc.)

    Sorry for all the questions, but the social evolution of computing among young adult artists is something I've been trying to understand for some time.

    I feel the next evolution in Tablet PCs will be driven by this crowd, however there seems to be a disconnect that develops at the college level that drives a wedge between tech-enthusiasts and artists, which might otherwise lead to a fruitful unified market base to drive the industry forward.
     
  10. doobiedoobiedum

    doobiedoobiedum Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Really sorry I never read back that far. Once I saw the thread was pretty much Apple users are idiots kind of posts, I tend to skim read. Anyhow, I'll do my best from my personal experience but also from working with people outside education.

    Remember, it's just my opinion!

    Absolutely agree, even if computer tech is being pushed with youngsters at school at much earlier ages. I get 2 classes of new 16 year old students each year and I'd say maybe 1 or 2 are digital artists. That's been pretty consistent for the last 10 years. Before that, it was even rarer. Gender spread has changed - used to be mainly a "boy thing" but has become mostly female now. Last year's Flash animator was a boy though.

    Majority of the intake want to go into Graphic design, then illustration, Fashion or Textile design.
    We're close to studios like Atomhawk here and I've tried selling the internships to my students but few get to first stage (interview) because Atomhawk want the students to be pretty focused on digital painting. Those students interested in concept art are very traditional but also don't like the hard work of studying anatomy.

    That's another bane of my life...

    No, in my experience, they are all PC based. Few have ever seen a Mac before they come here. Many or all have intuos type tablets and don't like transitioning to tabletpc.

    No problem!

    LOL at tech-savvy! However most know their way around a PC interface. Also depends on the schools they come from - one school sticks photography students in front of Photoshop, shows them the adjustments palette and hey presto - instant Photoshop genius. I then have to explain layers, brushes etc etc to students who don't really see the point.
    At other schools, they only know image editing through their own initiative.

    One year however, I did get 3 really strong gaming / concept arts students. 2 went into games / concept art and 1 transferred from her concept arts degree to an illustration degree. There was very little I could teach these 3 when they first started - but that kind of student is really rare around here.
    None of these three liked Macs if that adds any insight.

    The age group I work with, no, not in the slightest. They have never seen an Apple computer before. They will have iPhones but use PC or chromebooks mainly.
    Now, I know that some of my students going for University interview are told to buy a Mac laptop by their interviewer. I can try and balance that out but once my students have progressed - they are under the influence of University staff who have nothing but Macs in their studios.

    And I know for a fact, many of these tutors do the pressure job on students regarding buying a mac - they tell them so they can be taken seriously in the industry.

    Yes, I agree - the interesting thing though is that this year I have 1 student very much into trying my tabletPC - she's ordering one for Xmas. The new IT headguy has a daughter who uses his Microsoft Surface Pro at home so he actually "gets it" and he's put in a bid for 8 LCD drawing screens for my course.

    We're not getting tabletpc's for a long time however if I get some 16 - 22 inch cintiq type screens that will be a huge win for me. (It's also one of the reasons that I wanted to explore the best non-Cintiq options on another thread so we don't buy a bunch of turkeys!)
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
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