vaio canvas 2nd edition

Discussion in 'VAIO / Sony' started by jbaks, Aug 25, 2016.

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  1. MC1400

    MC1400 Pen Pal - Newbie

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  2. Tams

    Tams Scribbler - Standard Member

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    All that really may suggest is that any new models are going to be delayed due to the talks taking place.

    Sent from my SCL24 using Tapatalk
     
  3. kvoram

    kvoram Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    @MC1400 Literally old news, that article is dated Apr 15, 2016. I think somewhere around here we already discussed newer articles, that the merger has fallen through.
     
  4. FenderP

    FenderP Scribbler - Standard Member

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    The reality is that at its inception, Vaio said they were trying to have less models and less frequent updates. In Japan, you had 2 - 3 refreshes annually. They were looking to have more "evergreen" type of things. Note that even in Japan, they're not refreshing the Vaio line very often (but still get better specs in some cases ...). Some models are Japan only (the S11 coming to mind - I'd love that in a 16GB/1TB form!).

    The Canvas is a niche machine which is very Vaio at its DNA, but the reality is it is an edge machine. Having a full powered processor in there - even an older one - still makes it a better laptop than most. I also own the Panasonic CF-RZ4 which is incredible as well, but its Core M gets the same or worse battery life than the Z which is ironic.

    The Canvas took a long time from announcement (Sept. 14 I think) to being out (May 2015; I got mine from Japan shortly after). So it's been out for about a year which isn't horrible, but it's still quite a bit. There are things that could be improved, especially the storage (2 x 1TB PCIe NVMe would be great) and memory (32GB).

    I'd love to see a refresh, but at the same time, if it's not the Canvas, I'd like to see something in the Vaio line get that full processor, more storage, and more memory in a 12" or so form factor. I just got the new i7 NUC and it shows the potential for what a laptop like that can be.

    As a road warrior, I am still loving the Canvas. It handles lots of VMs easily. My biggest issues are memory and storage, not CPU. I still look around, but nothing catches my eye to replace the Canvas in the short term. As much as I love Panasonic, I can't go back to a non-touch, non-pen machine like the SZ which otherwise could fit the bill for the most part.

    I also look at things like the Lenovo Yoga Book and can't help but think Vaio would do it better :)
     
  5. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Could you link the article with this info?

    I don't doubt you, but I've researched (to no avail) for official statements from Vaio regarding product cycles. So I'm very curious to read the source.

    Unfortunately, there many power users who are of the mindset that they want at least TB3 expandability, if they are going to shell out for a high-performance device.

    It's one of the biggest draws for the Transformer Pro 3, and the SP5 will almost certainly replace the lone DisplayPort with a USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 port.

    These power users will almost certainly get a TP3 (if the reviews are good) or wait for the SP5 once KabyLake is released.

    However, if VAIO pre-empted the SP5 with a quad-core Skylake refresh of the Canvas, they have the chance of drawing away a significant portion of those power users before they become locked into yet another upgrade cycle, while also renewing the Canvas' brand presence as the 'top performance tablet' in the US market.

    Put it this way, if VAIO releases by Q1 next year (with a decent marketing campaign), every specs-based review of the SP5 will have to compare it to the Canvas 2. If not, the Canvas will simply slip further into obscurity, with many potential buyers simply unaware of such a remarkable gem of a device. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
  6. Tams

    Tams Scribbler - Standard Member

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    VAIO are already aiming for a niche market. A market that already tends to know what is available. You'll see this with the general lack of consumer marketing of their products and the lack of reviews from consumer review sites. Just having the latest and greatest doesn't make the best product, as VAIO have shown.

    Further, there is more than just the US market. No one really cares if something is the best in the US other than people in the US.

    See above. Further, the SP5 will not have a full voltage CPU. For those who need more than a ULV CPU, there will still be no other choice. VAIO have the market to themselves, and it doesn't look like there is going to be any competition any time soon. As for comparisons to the SP5? I doubt most of the market for the Canvas will care or even read them. Not that I trust many of the reviewers to even know how to review such devices.
     
  7. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Just take look at the current street price for an entry level Canvas, only $1129! We aren't talking just a "niche-of-niche" product here—we talking a solid contender for any tablet "power-user" (professionals, artists, etc...not just spec junkies like us ;)).

    I'm pretty sure one of the reasons MS stopped carrying the Canvas is that it makes the pricing of the SP4 and SB look like downright robbery! :D

    Make no mistake, the lack of market awareness is hurting VAIO's bottom line and with it, most probably, the long term prospects of the entire Canvas line.
     
  8. FenderP

    FenderP Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I can't easily find links from two years ago when Vaio was formed, but it was in one of the interviews they did and I used a translator to read it. The gist was that part of the way to profitability was fewer models and not as many refreshes. Given that Vaio is already profitable in Japan, I'd say they made the right call.

    I'm a power user for different reasons than some of the people here, and would welcome a refresh with USB C (3 ports would be nice - keep the two existing USB 3, but upgrade to 3.1), a Kaby Lake processor, 2 x 1TB NVMe (preferably the SM961, not the PM961 - I have the SM961 in something and it is awesome), and 32GB (which is dirt cheap these days), it would be amazing. Part of the problem with the SP and the TP is that they are the U processors, which, while nice, are not the HQ or K. I want/need a sub-3lb 12" (give or take) power machine with some inking abilities for when I teach. The ZC is that machine right now. I never hear the fan even with 10 VMs running, and it stays cool. In 12+ years of doing heavy virtualization, I can't say that about any other laptop I've owned domestic or Japanese - period.

    In all of the ZC reviews I read after it came out in the US, people had no clue that the HQ processor was better than what was in the SP4. They just kept harping that it was last gen without understanding what it was. Even the Surface Book uses a U. Meh.

    So it depends. I think Vaio sees the regular Z (the flip) as their more traditional cash cow (so to speak), but I do hope we get a ZC refresh or something else with this power, even in a clamshell with inking abilities.

    FWIW, the new Intel i7 NUC is basically the machine I want for internals. Just find a way to put it in a ZC form. I got the new NUC and it's all decked out for roughly $2000 (32GB, 2 x 1TB NVMe SSD - you can go cheaper if you don't want/need that).

    I paid close to $4k when the ZC came out to get it from Japan (and yes, I prefer a Japanese keyboard but that's neither here nor there). I'm debating if they are not going to refresh it to get a backup US one for under $2k with the same specs. I will be sad if I have to go back to a U processor.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
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  9. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    So the question is whether VAIO should release sooner with a Skylake HQ, or wait for Kabylake HQ to be released.

    Recall how the launch of the Canvas in the US was overshadowed by the almost concurrent release of the SP4. What's more is that MS pushed SP4 units quickly out to reviewers, while it took months before the Canvas got any detailed analysis.

    This meant that all the specs-focused review sites made absolutely no comparisons to the Canvas, yet still managed to conclude:

    (Anandtech)
    "If you are looking for a workhorse tablet that you can be productive on, I don’t think anyone else offers the build quality, performance, and accessories, compared to Surface."

    Which is patently ridiculous in light of the Canvas' thermal design and chassis construction and internal components. And this is coming from one of the most well-researched, well-read, tech enthusiast sites in the world.

    This is the danger of market obscurity.

    The long-term value to the Canvas line of pre-empting the SP5 in setting the "tablet performance bar", far exceeds the value of whatever minor performance increases Kabylake would bring.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  10. Tams

    Tams Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Not getting review units out there is a problem.

    Anandtech in particular are bad for this, as they seem rather unwilling to spend any money on products if they don't get a review unit (hence their lack of Sony phone reviews). They should at least be able to compare paper specs. They are also quite opinionated (see the battery and expandable memory farce).

    That said, I almost always only use NotebookCheck for reviews. They go into good technical detail on all aspects and don't focus too much on giving an arbitrary score. They don't have a Canvas review though! So along with here, NotebookReview, and MobileTechReview there's really no need to go anywhere else. This doesn't solve the lack of exposure, but at least if people who are 'in the know' use such websites, they should get a good idea of what is out there.

    One thing that really is the a shame is the rise of The Verge. While they can occasionally be great, most of the time they are mediocre or downright terrible. They are often referenced by other more widespread and mainstream media though, so what they report is often what is presented to the wider general populace. If we could just find a way to end their influence...
     
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