vaio canvas 2nd edition

Discussion in 'VAIO / Sony' started by jbaks, Aug 25, 2016.

  1. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    As part of my ongoing discussion with @Steve S about contacting VAIO, I thought I'd re-post this little excerpt for people who may be still interested:

    After considering this for a while, I've come to conclusion that I won't simply talk about feature improvements, but rather make a business case for the Canvas 2.

    Essentially, it boils down to this: there still is no portable workstation tablet.

    ...aside from (ironically) the original Canvas itself. However, for digital creatives, the original is hamstring by a small screen and now, outdated connectivity.

    It's a very simple business case actually. Digital creatives are used to working with 15" 4K displays (XPS 9560, MBP15, MSP16) with a decent amount of graphics prowess (~GTX1050) and the ability to dock to a full desktop setup (via TB3).

    Now VAIO still is only manufacturer able to design a 47W system to run smoothly, silently and long.

    Yes, I said long battery life, because having a Haswell quadcore run for about 4.5 hours on a mixed-workload, with no special battery saving on the user's part, is actually nothing short of amazing.

    Vaio has done more than simply design an amazing and unrivaled cooling system, but also expertly tuned the CPU profile and motherboard firmware. Their PCB design skills are simply second to none.

    Now somehow this message was lost in the poor marketing launch of the Canvas. I partly blame reviewers, but mostly the blame falls on a dilute and almost non-existent ad campaign—in the West.

    I mean this is beautiful advertising! Why isn't this translated into English?! It's a unique, well-produced and most importantly, very inspiring usecase for many digital creatives.

    So really, VAIO has the technical expertise and marketing chops to offer something simply unmatched in the market. Not just a great tablet, but the best performing mobile workstation under 2kg. The market is still strong for digital creatives (Dell, Apple and MS are all chasing it) but VAIO offers something no other company can.

    I know I'm probably going to get beaten to the ground for saying this, but I say the business and marketing prospects for VAIO are actually good! :)
     
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  2. Model

    Model Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Thanks for the input, I love to read stuff about the canvas but lost hope for a Canvas 2.
     
  3. Kumabjorn

    Kumabjorn ***** is back Senior Member

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    Not to be a wet blanket, but the mood in Japan at the moment is introspective highlighted by cautious pessimism. The fallout from the Toshiba disaster is still uncertain and that does not contribute to more optimism.

    Digital artist found dead in home. Details sketchy.
     
  4. RT545

    RT545 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    @Marty:

    In the Eve V Discussion Thread, @sonichedgehog360 informed us that the people behind the Eve V project would accept to build any custom tablet that we would suggest, provided that we can find enough people here to vote for the project and demonstrate a sufficient amount of interest on their forums. He proposed that we organize threads here first to vote for the projects, in order to bring a convincing number of people to their forums with a clear idea. The two suggested projects for now are 10 inches "surface air" tablet and quad core, VAIO Z Canvas inspired, tablet (such a project could be interesting to be started in the perspective of the arrival of the versions of Ryzen with lower TDPs at the end of the year).

    As you still want to contact VAIO, so I understand if you do not wish to start this kind of thing for the moment.

    So... What do you think?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
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  5. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Not to be a wet blanket, but aren't all Japanese suits cautiously introspective, bordering on pessimistic? :p

    Having spoken with Konstantinos (project lead for EVE), I have deepest admiration for them. However, Canvas-level quad-core chipset design isn't something a limited team like EVE could realistically pull off (in a reasonable amount of time).

    Even the very experienced and well-funded Surface team is on its 4th iteration...and Surface Pro still runs hot. Similarly, Dell, Lenovo, and Wacom's cooling systems cannot hold a candle to VAIOs. And this all with dual-cores.

    Nobody in the field has even touched quad-cores in the detachable form factor...except for VAIO.

    This is because (unlike almost every other OEM) VAIO does not outsource its PCB design to major ODMs like Quanta. The "Z-Engine" motherboards are designed and manufactured in-house, with layout and traces customized for maximum density and performance:

    (From VAIO)

    "...We revolutionized the industry with high density hardware mounting and new heat dissipating technology that our rivals could not imitate,” explained Kasai. “We knew if we could do this, VAIO would have a competitive edge.” Shrink the circuit board and create the cooling technology for the most optimal use of space – this is how we came to create the “Z ENGINE” with a blazing fast response.

    Why did VAIO choose to pursue high density mounting? The story actually goes back to over 12 years ago with the development of the “VAIO SZ”. Generally speaking, PC manufacturing is the most horizontal of industries. Each company builds devices from essentially the same technology, but it is important to create something unique that distinguishes you from the rest and highlights your own technological strengths.

    ..This is what VAIO thought back then, too, with various departments, including planning and manufacturing, allocating resources to develop a high density mounting for future devices. These same team members spent over 10 years incrementally improving and enhancing efficiencies, and the circuit board can be considered the crowning achievement of their efforts.
    "​

    In short, the "secret sauce" that VAIO uses for quad-core cooling is: it's not your average motherboard; it's a Sony design that's been iterated on for over a decade of producing the ultra-compact, high-performance Vaio Z series.

    This isn't something you can produce with a year or two of crowd-sourced discussion; you need a team of hardcore, dedicated engineers working for years...which I feel would be an impractical commitment for EVE, at least for now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
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  6. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 Editor-in-Chief of TechAndTiny Senior Member

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    @Marty: Though I generally agree that research and development takes time, this is not the case for their current tablet. Their current, second prototype can use the Core i5-7Y54 processor in a completely fanless configuration at a custom 15W TDP configuration with no thermal throttling to speak of. Check my related forum posts in the Eve V discussion thread, complete with links to their forum where several backers have already thoroughly tested for peak sustained performance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  7. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 Editor-in-Chief of TechAndTiny Senior Member

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    Change of plans: If you would like to start sharing ideas with Eve about a Surface Air and/or the VAIO Z Canvas clone, visit this link and start discussing away with other people at the Eve Community forum:

    >> https://eve.community/t/what-next-on-2in1-form-factor/6272/10 <<

    In addition, we can discuss how our ideas our coming along on the TabletPCReview Forum here:

    http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/thr...or-surface-air-and-vaio-z-canvas-clone.72052/

    CC: @RT545 @Marty @michaelws @FZelle @thierryb
     
  8. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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    To All: Having established that there is now a thread to discuss a Z Canvas clone, I'd like to suggest that all discussions of that subject be conducted on that thread.

    This thread is about possible Z Canvas refreshes performed by VAIO. Let's stay on topic.

    Thanks for everyone's understanding about this...
     
  9. FenderP

    FenderP Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Considering the ZC is gone from the Vaio site in Japan and confirmed that it was discontinued while I was there, I'd say it's like other aspirational/POC type machines Sony Vaio did years ago. You get one, then sometimes you don't get a successor. Maybe you'll get one in a weird way in a few years, but the ZC proved it was possible to do a lot in a small form factor. Let's hope someone else picks up the gauntlet and has the chutzpah to shove a quad core in a small form factor with great thermal cooling.
     
  10. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    So here's some interesting (relatively) recent news for all the die-hard Z Canvas fans out there:

    This is an interview that Ty Takayanagi, VAIO's director of product marketing in North America, gave on Feb 9, 2017:

    http://www.bootcamp.com/interview.jsp?interviewId=2917

    Ty surprisingly opens the interview with the Z Canvas, not at all treating it like an abandoned product. In fact, Ty is quite careful to mention 2 specifics points:

    1. The Z Canvas does not directly compete with the Surface Pro (a point lost on most tech journalists).

    2. VAIO has engineered hardware features like the touch on/off key, to cater specifically to creative professionals.

    The fact that Ty is not trying to divert discussion away from the Canvas, but actually dedicates over a third of the interview to it, leads me to believe VAIO is still assessing market demand (and probably not as clueless as we think about the untapped potential ;)).
     
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