Surface Pro X Discussion Thread (October 2019)

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by JoeS, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,906
    Likes Received:
    9,455
    Trophy Points:
    331
    An excellent point for all of us to keep in mind...otherwise everything has to be "magical" "amazing" "unsurpassed" "literally never seen before" "changed computing forever" or it is doo doo...
     
    Kumabjorn likes this.
  2. violajack

    violajack Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    463
    Trophy Points:
    76
    A Go 2 is not half the price of a Pro X. I'll go off what I have, because it's what I have, but an 8/128 Go 2 with LTE is $694. My 8/128 LTE Pro X was $899, but seems to be down to $849 now. What's the price difference between a 13" and 15" laptop? I'd say an extra 2.5" of screen is generally going to run a few hundred more no matter what you're looking at. And, well, the ProX was available in stock at my local BB in that configuration. After a very disappointing experience waiting for a Pro7 only to have to send it back, being able to walk into a store to buy it was nice. Also, I have the BB protection plan. Since Microsoft closed all their stores, this is the only way to have a physical store to take the machine to if I need to have it replaced.

    Then, there's the fact that the SSD in the ProX is upgradable. Microsoft wants you to think it isn't a user replaceable part, but I'm one little torx screw and about $200 away from having a 1TB SSD. Thanks Reddit! You can't even get that kind of storage space in a Go.

    If you want to bring the Samsung Flex into the comparison, you're looking at a 360 hinge laptop, which is okay if that's what you want. But I wanted a slate. Period. I know for me, for what I want to do with a machine, based on my experience with the YogaBook, a 10.5" screen is too small and I strongly dislike having to flip the thing all the way around to get to a slate I can set on a music stand or sit with to read on the couch. I'm perfectly happy with the type cover, so the keyboard of the Flex isn't a strong factor, no matter how nice it may be. Also, the 16:9 screen of the Flex is not the same document display space as the 3:2 screen of the Pro X, so even though they're both 13" on paper, the Pro X is a much bigger screen for my usage.

    TL: DR - the ProX vs the Go2 gives me a bigger screen, upgradeable hard drive, keyboard stowed slim pen, and immediate in store availability with physical store warranty coverage.

    It's true what you say that computing is getting very personal. There are just so many variations on what we need and how we use things that it's hard to judge any machine outside of the context of each specific use case. And there are as many use cases as there are people using computers.
     
    Chris_Kez, Marty, dstrauss and 4 others like this.
  3. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,029
    Likes Received:
    2,191
    Trophy Points:
    231
    One thing the switch over could allow would be making the device thinner. The Surface Go 1 & 2 are 8.4mm thick which is virtually the same as the 8.5mm Surface Pro.

    WOA in a Go could easily facilitate making the GO significantly thinner. The Go getting a Pro X redesign is the natural expectation I think, but they could make it even thinner technically. If you're of the mind-frame of comparing the Surface Go against something like an iPad Pro or the Samsung Tab S7, a thinner form would certainly help. And a slim pen type cover would help make up for the lack of a Pen silo.

    But Price will be key, pricing the Pro X higher then the Intel Pro I still think was a huge mistake. WOA at this point would have greater adoption as a secondary device, making the Go line a perfect place to expand to.

    For my specific purposes, the main reason why I could never opt for a Pro X is the lack of Clip Studio Paint and VS Code which are the most common programs I use.
    VS code recently got WOA support so that checks that off, and while Clip Studio still isn't on WOA, the simple fact that they finally brought it to Android gives me some hope a WOA build could come out at some point.

    And there might be workarounds...like the Android emulator Bluestacks. Not sure if thats Windows on Arm compatible, and thought of running an emulator inside of an emulator just seems weird, but Blue Stacks does have this partnership with Samsung for the Galaxy App store, and given Samsungs own WOA attempts...just having Clip Studio in the Galaxy App store alone I think opens many doors. They may not open fully, but a crack is better then nothing.

    if they could give us a 10-inch Surface Pro X in the $500-ish price range, I'd likely get one.

    But sadly given the Price of the Pro X and Surface Duo...I have an awful feeling they will again foolishly outprice it.
     
  4. jhoff80

    jhoff80 Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,451
    Likes Received:
    1,178
    Trophy Points:
    231
    I mean one would hope by the time a new ARM device comes out, that Microsoft would have their developer story figured out. But who knows, some of these ARM64 toolchains are being pushed back to 2021.

    Still, if I had Affinity Photo which they have said is coming eventually, I'd have no reason to turn on my old x64 PC. But I know that's not the same for everyone.

    That being said, I know some people have speculated (again) about Windows 10X on the Pro X. If that awful limited OS came to the Pro X (of course, this is speculation based on what we currently know from emulator builds), I would be very disappointed in its future, and most likely hold off from that downgrade as long as humanly possible. I don't know why anyone would want half of an operating system on a 13" device. I get it (for some people - I'd still want a full OS) on a 9" screen like the Neo was going to have on each side maybe, but on a 13" tablet it's kind of ridiculous. I've got an idea, maybe Microsoft makes a special mode that is designed for tablets. A tablet mode you might even call it. And there they can design something that actually works well on tablets, while still giving you a full OS. Could anyone ever do such a thing? o_Oo_Oo_O

    (Well, sarcasm aside, actually maybe not, since tablet mode has always been awful in Windows 10).
     
    JoeS likes this.
  5. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,651
    Likes Received:
    3,333
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Based on what we are starting to hear, what is "common knowledge" about Windows X is at best, off base. Yes the latest public information makes it look more like a chrome OS competitor and that's actually true, but.... That will be just one flavor of it.

    What MS appears to be trying to do is make Windows far more scalable in both directions, from a small ice lake based tablet to a 10 core core i9 based desktop with the components and libraries need for each without all the cruft they don't.

    In other words a future Neo (maybe) doesn't need all the legacy support for IDE or SCSI drives or umpty zillion video card architectures. Or for that matter software support for older .NET applications.

    Conversely a high end desktop doesn't need support for 15 different power management architectures (yes there really are that many out in the market ) but might need extensive video support.

    Or for that matter a mobile focused WOA device could have an OS load that's 1/3 the size and probably 30-40% faster.

    In other words think of it as a Core OS model that adds what you actually need; kind of like the device manager model now where it grabs updated drivers when you install the hardware ; but on steroids.

    The only potential downside I've heard expressed about that is that it makes an internet connection more important than ever and it hints toward a future where you have to have a "subscription" to Windows.

    I personally have mixed feelings about this. However for our devices, it would be huge benefit to have a pared down OS and is something we have been asking of MS for years.

    TLDR: Windows X will gradually replace all windows, the latest chrome os competitor version is just the tip of the spear.

    One again, musings for a Saturday morning :)

    PS: One thing that makes this idea seem like a logical move forward including starting with a chrome OS competitor is that something like the Neo or other high mobile devices could immediately benefit from a slimmed down more efficient OS

    PPS; A hint about this possible future can be found in Microsoft Teams where the software load is significantly different on a Go2 versus a multi-monitor i7 based desktop
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
    Chris_Kez, Bishop and JoeS like this.
  6. Bishop

    Bishop Keeper of Odd Knowledge Senior Member

    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    1,099
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Logical. Entirely logical. It begs a few questions:
    1. Can it be done?
    2. Will Microsoft actually be the one to do it?
    3. Is there enough of a business case to move corporate and government market and spend to replace existing systems in favor of the new? (Think inertia on a planetary scale.)
    Just thinking about the project management planning exercise to produce the Gantt chart for that effort is mind boggling.

    Strikes me that Apple has actually been in a position to unify its offerings - iOS through Big Sur(? - full Mac OS) - and hasn't. Was iPadOS a toe in the same water? Google sees the chasm between Android and Chrome OS much less to desktop/server, and the chasm is still there. All three have the cash to buy almost any missing piece, and haven't.

    Something's missing, or at least not visible yet.
     
  7. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,651
    Likes Received:
    3,333
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Agreed on all counts including potential complexity but.... I think this will be strictly a go forward type of thing and will have very little to no impact on current systems with the possible exception of the Pro X which might be the first test bed for this; similar to what Apple has done with the dev ARM based Mac mini.

    Which also means that Windows 10 will be around for a long time and possibly eventually just doesn't get new technology updates.
     
    Bishop likes this.
  8. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

    Messages:
    8,166
    Likes Received:
    3,667
    Trophy Points:
    331
    <<...Or for that matter software support for older .NET applications...>>

    As Microsoft moves forward with this vision, I sure hope that some sort of bridge for older applications is maintained (as you suggest, a Device Manager like approach that can fetch at least some legacy SW components). There are a lot of really neat apps that use ,NET and I'd really be sorry to see them go away...
     
  9. dceggert

    dceggert Owner of a TabletPC Museum Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,105
    Likes Received:
    553
    Trophy Points:
    181
    When I was looking up information on the Surface Neo on the MS website I read that Windows 10X will have a 'shell' to run legacy 32bit applications in for those that need the ability. So, it would appear that MS is keeping legacy support in mind. Whether that includes .NET resources or not is unknown.
     
    desertlap likes this.
  10. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

    Messages:
    8,166
    Likes Received:
    3,667
    Trophy Points:
    331
    <<...Whether that includes .NET resources or not is unknown...>>

    I would think that it would have to. A lot of developers have used .NET over the years to shortcut their development needs. And some of the niche apps that resulted are "the only game in town"...
     
Loading...

Share This Page