Surface Pro uses Wacom?

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by Shogmaster, Dec 4, 2012.

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  1. AmbiDextrose

    AmbiDextrose Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I found the patent application for Perceptive Pixel's active stylus(filed on 08.29.2011 and published the following year):

    US2011049534 LOCALIZING AN ELECTROSTATIC STYLUS WITHIN A CAPACITIVE TOUCH SENSOR

    It is a purely capacitive implementation with a twist: the pen is also electrostatically charged and transmits positional data to the capacitive sensor. Position tracking is shared between the stylus and the capacitive sensor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  2. tissot

    tissot Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Looking at the stylus demo by Microsoft on the Surface unveiling event, the palm rejection isn't working like intended. He got the pen close to the screen, but he can only hold his finger resting on the screen, not his palm as well as the device recognizes it as pinch to zoom. Granted we are talking about device that after that demo will still be in development for 6 months.

    I just hope they don't **** this up at this point. That stylus is essential for my use and anything below wacom is not acceptable.
     
  3. tabletartist4d

    tabletartist4d Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I have to agree. When i found out a few months ago that the surface pro was likely to use perceptive pixel, i had pretty much counted it out mainly because I have used Wacom and know it works very very well. Will not likely use n-trig ever again and dont want a battery powered stylus. While the PP technology might be great and eventually be a worthy contender, I dont feel like being one of the guinea pigs who hammers out all the flaws. The announcement that the surface pro might use wacom was music to my ears, considering most of the other specs, build quality, etc, look great. Ive even been using my ipad with a jaja stylus, and while its okay, it really is night and day when i go back to my note 2 with the s-pen. Wacom is a must in my next tablet. If the ativ pro were more available, costed less (lets face it its way over priced), and had better build quality I would have already tracked one down.
     
  4. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I still have my doubts that it's Perceptive Pixel: In the video, they show the chip responsible for computing and recognizing all the inputs. It's a huge chip. Indeed, the level of input recognition displayed in the video is incredibly impressive enough to require dedicated ASIC, and I imagine these displays costing $10K and up, thus cost impact of such chip is negligible. But on something like Surface Pro, it's too big and costly to include on the mobo, so if they were to use PP pen, they would have to limit the scope of their software and run the algorithm on the CPU. That would not get us near the performance shown in the video, and would rob precious cycles away from the LV CPU to boot.

    I still think PP is too immature for mobile application. It's hardware and software were designed for big scale large displays for corportae environments. And until they can get the chip small and cheap enough to be trivial cost to include on a mobo or via daughter board, it would be smarter to go with existing solutions like Wacom.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  5. tissot

    tissot Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I'm kind of in a same dilemma. I think Surface specifications and pricing are hitting the sweet spot and there really isn't much, if any, sleek, stylus supported i5 tablets out there other than Surface Pro.
    While i maybe could see myself dropping the cash for ativ pro, it's just simply way overpriced by Samsung and i'm not going to be sucked into that. Especially with the typical Samsung build materials. I want true premium product with that price.


    But as Shogmaster said we still don't have anything official and Surface Pro has been long in development compared to those old videos, even if it has Perceptive Pixel.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  6. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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  7. e-schreiber

    e-schreiber ƒ(x) / fashion Senior Member

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    I don't know if they are sleek, but there are more Win8 tablets with Stylus support than just the Surface or Ativ. Half of them are already on store shelves, the other half is on pre-order. Also, there's the Lenovo Helix awaiting official announcement. When comparing prices, remember to factor in the keyboard and SSD sizes. Still on the pricing subject, I believe OEMs will cut prices once the Xmas rush is over and the hype surrounding the Surface Pro hits the media.



    The use of Wacom would give Microsoft obvious "bragging rights", yet they aren't shouting it to the world...(!) Strange. I still think it will be Perceptive Pixel.
     
  8. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Bragging right? To the media? What fantasy world are you living in? Wacom's recognition in the public is only in the artist sphere. They offer no bragging rights to public at large.

    Also, did you totally decided to disregard logic? PP pen works with the pro cap digitizer: there is only ONE digitizer for both pen and touch. The video CLEARLY stated that there are two separate digitizers for pen and touch in the Surface Pro. Come on dude. Let's use our heads.
     
  9. thegiffman

    thegiffman Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Where do you get "battery-less"? I get the opposite message since it clips into the charger. And PP had the eraser as well.

    The comment about two digitizers sounds more like Wacom, but that could be just a semantic issue or a minor technical gaffe. After all, you could say that there are in a sense "two digitizers" in that the powered pen is a digitizer of its own. So it certainly isn't decisive. Likewise the idea of just turning off touch when the pen is near sounds like Wacom, but Jeff Han mentioned this as a temporary issue of windows apps not using the more sophisticated palm rejection and just throwing out touch.

    There are other things that seem very much like PP talking points. The super low parralex - thinnest difference between pen and screen ever. This is a PP distinctive. Jeff Han's slides contrasted their low parralex with the cintiq. Also, the sub pixel accuracy - this is something that PP also talks about but Wacom typically doesnt.

    Finally, it is a bit of a clue that they spent as much as they did talking about the stylus tech and taking credit for the little features. The focus on the event was on surface's distinctives, and if it's just Wacom then it's exactly the same as a bunch of other tablets - nothing new since my old 5 year old Fujitsu.

    The strongest argument in favor of PP is Jeff Han's statement about pen and touch, and perhaps also the Wacom representative's statement that Microsoft is using in house tech. This is all short of full confirmation, but I dare say it's enough for someone to think PP is the technology without being a fool. ;-)

    As an artist, I'm excited about this tech. Granted its not the tried and true Wacom, but many features actually look better. I doubt what you say about the image processing being done in software is actually the case. In the end, the process of determining touch points and whatnot needs to be done for any digitizer. That PP can distinguish between a palm and a finger doesn't in itself mean they'd require an extra oversized chip that they couldn't possibly fit into a tablet. Anyway, the pen and touch demos that Jeff Han gives are absolutely mouth watering. I'm excited.
     
  10. tissot

    tissot Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Are there much beyond those two? Sleek, i5 tablet with stylus?
    By sleek i was more comparing combos like ASUS Taichi, Sony VAIO Duo to standalone tablets like Surface and ativ (yes it got keyboard, but it's detachable). Helix is one, but i have no plans to start waiting for a device that's rumored. Been waiting way too long for these devices already.
     
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