Surface Pro uses Wacom?

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by Shogmaster, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Bamboo Stylus for EMR Tablets | Wacom

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2012
  2. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    What's interesting is that they show it on the page you link to, but not under the "compatability" page, which seems odd. The compatability page is missing quite a few current tablets that have Wacom, but it seems odd they didn't list the Surface Pro, since they mention it on the first page.... I'd like to see something from MS to really seal the deal, but its very positive.
     
  3. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    That compatibility page is hardly ever updated.
     
  4. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    RAD.


    can the wacom feel pen be used with all Wacom tablet PC's? I know generally this would be the case, but I get the impression this pen may be different from say a lifebook pen or axiotron?
     
  5. Steve S

    Steve S Scribbler - Standard Member Super Moderator

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    <<...can the wacom feel pen be used with all Wacom tablet PC's?..>>

    ...First blush, it might not be compatible because the "Wacom Feel IT sensor" is mentioned. It's discussed as a new technology feature.

    <<...Surface Pro uses Wacom confirmed...>>

    ...Possibly, but is it possible that this Wacom pen is also compatible with non-Wacom technologies? I've been told that the Surface Pro pen will also work on Surface RT (person claimed to have actual, hands-on experience with this). Current UP and penabled Wacom pens do not work on the Surface RT. That may not prove anything, though...
     
  6. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    This is just a rebranding of their Penabled Digitizer Pens....nothing more

    However, I am glad the Surface Pro is blessed with Wacom. It garantees my purchase of. Kind of glad I didn't plunk down for the Smart PC Pro.
     
  7. jhoff80

    jhoff80 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I still kind of doubt that'll be the case; even the Surface Twitter is saying otherwise (not necessarily official, but I'd trust it more than a Store rep):

    "@bwinzenz Hey Ben, the Pen for the #Surface Pro will not work with RT. Surface Pro features a specific digitizer system."
    https://twitter.com/surface/status/275659057111646209

    "@MattstaNinja The Surface with Windows RT will use a capacitive pen only. Surface with Windows 8 Pro will use digitizer pens as well."
    https://twitter.com/surface/status/274313626507177984


    Also, glad to see it's Wacom. And is it just me or does that "Feel Carbon" pen look really nice? I've already got a ton of Wacom pens, but I might just have to try that too. :D
     
  8. excalibur1814

    excalibur1814 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    After only having the Surface RT for a few days I'm pretty sure that I'll go for the Pro once it hits as I SIMPLY CANNOT HELP MYSELF! :) ...and probably due to Wacom.
     
  9. Erik Latranyi

    Erik Latranyi Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Wacom is great news as I just purchased a red Touch Cover for the Surface Pro!

    Yes, cart before horse.
     
  10. Steve S

    Steve S Scribbler - Standard Member Super Moderator

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    <<...but I'd trust it more than a Store rep...>>

    ...This wasn't a store rep; this was a Redmond guy. HOWEVER, he would have been handling a prototype, so if the pen technology has changed, you could be right...

    One observation: The tip of this new Wacom pen sort of resembles the tip of the pen shown in the Surface Pro pictures; that could be a supporting clue...

    PS: One more thing; that availability date, 7 January... I wonder if there's anything special about that date (other than possibly CES)...???
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  11. bloodycape

    bloodycape Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Price just got more interesting for me, though I may just wait for the Pro 2 with longer battery life.
     
  12. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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  13. jhoff80

    jhoff80 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Relooking at the new Wacom pen itself, I wonder if you can flip it over to be able to use the eraser? I would think the way they show it (with the cap fit onto the back of it) would prevent that, unless maybe that is spring loaded as well somehow.

    Probably not relevant to the Surface because I would think the included pen will be an OEM variety and not what Wacom looks to be selling as higher end, but still something I'm curious about.
     
  14. Phoenix995

    Phoenix995 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    so the normal pen, that is included in the surface pro will be pressure sensitive?
     
  15. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    yes. 256 levels.
     
  16. SignatureProfessional

    SignatureProfessional Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Can you provide a source for the information that the Microsoft Surface Pro Stylus is able to distinct 256 pressure levels "only"?

    According to our research it seems to be more likely that the Microsoft Surface Pro comes with the capability to distinct 1,024 levels of pressure.

    - This would be similiar to the S-Pen of Samsung which is de facto a Wacom Stylus as well, working with Wacom's Electromagnetic Resonance Technology which was marketed as "Penabled" prior to being allocated now as "feel IT" (which hides a bit the expertise in pen computing).
    - Final specs might be a bit smiliar to the Samsungs Ativ Smart PC Pro XE 700T (Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro 700T (700T1C) | Samsung Tablet PCs) as the Microsoft Surface Pro comes with a 10.6" display with 1920x1080 pixel (same resolution like this Samsung tablet).

    Some more Windows 8 tablets which run with Wacom EMR technology are listed at SOFTPRO - Microsoft Surface Pro Tablet running on Windows 8 Professional
     
  17. Phoenix995

    Phoenix995 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    @ Shogmaster
    that sounds really cool!
    but where do you know that from? cause i coudnt find any info about this on the interweb... could you post your source?
     
  18. dceggert

    dceggert Moving 'up' from iPAQ Senior Member

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    I think the source is a scoop right here among the contributors that you will not find anywhere else. With the players involved (see above) it is highly likely to be good information.

    The information was based on a tweet from an MS insider.
     
  19. Superswift

    Superswift Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Does this mean the surface pro may be better for drawing than the Samsung Ativ 700t. Trying to decide if I should hold out for it.
     
  20. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Wacom pens do not determine the levels of the pressure. Its the firmware on the digitizer board that determines pressure.

    When Microsoft set up the whole "Tablet PC" platform back in 2004, along with Wacom, they set the digitizer specs for the pen (back then, it was ONLY pen, no touch), And in that spec, they established minimum 100Hz refresh rate. Pressure sensitivity wasn't part of the spec.

    Wacom provided the digitizers to almost all of the initial ODMs of tablet PCs (along with Finepoint Innovations for lone HP TC1000). Wacom decided to take their old UD series digitizer and re-purpose it for use in Tablet PCs. At that point, Wacom was using UD digitizer for the Cintiq (18SX) @ 512 levels of pressure, but they decided to bring that down to 256 levels. That served two purposes: extend battery life, and allow Cintiq 18SX to have "better" specs than these Tablet PCs, which could potentially steal away sales from Cintiqs for artists and designers. The profit from sale of digitizer board and pen to Tablet PC ODMs paled (still does) compared to profits from selling Cintiqs obviously.

    Fast forward to now and you have Cintiqs that have long moved onto different digitizer class. Using Intuos digitizer, Cintiq pens not only allows for pressures sensing, but also tilt and rotation. And the pressure levels have been increased to 2048. There is also a brand new tip assembly that makes Intuos and Cintiq pens more sensitive to initial pressure take off point then other Wacom pens. So for marketing purposes, Wacom feels safe allowing Penabled Tablet PCs and slates to have 1024 levels of pressure via modified firmware for the board.

    So what does all this mean for us? 1024 levels on some Penabled devices while 256 levels on others. A real mess right?

    Wrong.

    It doesn't means a GD thing. Pressure levels beyond say 128 levels fall off a great cliff of diminishing returns and you won't feel the difference. I know many THINK they do, but they really don't. What they do notice are things like faster computer that the digitizer is working with, better software that utilizes pressure levels more efficiently and effectively, and lack of interference from errand programs, scripts, bugs, etc that is messing with the digitizer's operations.

    I have been saying this for a long LONG time.I have a video going back to 2008 on youtube that illustrates this. I recently did a new video on Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro (with 1024 levels of pressure! Ta da~) that illustrates this. But artists, digital or no, tends to be less logical and more emotional, and refused to acknowledge this.
     
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