Surface Pro 8 - Speculation and Rumors

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by dstrauss, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    3,603
    Trophy Points:
    181
    You are correct, in absolute terms they are smaller and they are smaller on the Go 2 than the original go. My point was it with the Go 2 they have more or less hit parity proportionally with the Pro.

    That is not 100% accurate across the board, but generally. With reasons having more to do with the specific display panels MS is using and the underlying hardware to support them.

    I'm really hoping they find a way to use the Pro X display.
     
  2. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,092
    Likes Received:
    2,254
    Trophy Points:
    231
    why can’t they just use the Pro X design mostly as is? Even if they can’t match the 7.3 thinness of the Pro X....the Pro X design in a slightly thicker frame....8mm or 8.3mm would still be to most everyone’s liking.
     
    nnthemperor likes this.
  3. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    3,603
    Trophy Points:
    181
    I honestly don't know what the hang up is. I have seen some speculation that its an interference issue between the display controller, pixel sense and the intel chip sets. Something that QUALCOMM chipsets may somehow avoid.

    There is some indirect support for that theory in that intel chip sets and LTE have similar issues and is why LTE is still a relative rarity in intel based laptops. The G0 is a notable exception, but it has additional specific shielding for that reason and which by the way, adds slightly to the overall thickness of the device..

    I want to emphasize that the above is speculation by me and is not based in 100% provable fact.
     
  4. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 AKA Hifihedgehog Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,255
    Likes Received:
    1,841
    Trophy Points:
    181
    [​IMG]

    At this point, while I refrain in saying Apple has the upper hand over AMD here given things like this, it would be suicide to choose Intel's Tiger Kitten Lake now even with a billion dollars of discounts and kickbacks wrapped around it. Knowing where the major players now stand, if Microsoft goes with the same-old, same-old Wintel flow and defaults to Intel over AMD for Surface Pro 8, they are just plain stupid. No two ways about it. Are you hearing me loud and clear, Panos Panay? (Shakes fist in air!) If they go with Intel for Surface Pro 8, there is no way in the world they could honestly claim they have a lead in any synthetic test over Apple and that is a straight-up, certifiable fact. Only AMD would give them a lead in multithreaded workloads and, with Zen 3, a potential neck-and-neck tie in single-threaded workloads. Microsoft (I'm looking at you, Panos Panay), take notes and get it through your thick skulls for once. If you want to stand a chance of being remotely competitive, ditch the Intel dodo and go team red!
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  5. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,034
    Likes Received:
    9,608
    Trophy Points:
    331
    I beg to differ (big surprise). Benchmarks are not the be all end all of computing. It's the entire system experience, and having used the i7-1165G for the last two weeks, I have to say that a Surface Pro 8, with this processor and TB4 would be a huge upgrade for the SP8. The fan rarely fires up; overall Windows 10 and software performance is great; Iris Xe graphics are snappy. Battery life is very much improved - at least two more hours even with the OLED. Sleep mode really works - for the first time in my experience, and not a hot bend all ag incident in two weeks.

    In fact, I really believe the 11th Gen processor would work in the Pro X body - just give us two TB4 ports and mSDXC expansion. The keyboard and pen will stand out for themselves.
     
    Steve S and Chris_Kez like this.
  6. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,092
    Likes Received:
    2,254
    Trophy Points:
    231
    I have to agree. The only concession is really matching the 7.3mm thinness. But even then, Samsung was able to cram a 15w 7th gen i5 into a 7.6mm chassis with the Galaxy Book 12. Offering an i7 might make that more problematic...but the 8.5mm thickness of the Pro 4-7 with the keyboard cover is still quite equal to the MacBooks. Even the MacBook Air is only slightly thinner on the thin side. A Intel based Pro X.....from 8.5mm to anywhere less, with 11th gen and TB4 should totally be doable. I feel Microsoft at this point is deliberately withholding that to give the Pro X its best chance.
     
  7. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 AKA Hifihedgehog Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,255
    Likes Received:
    1,841
    Trophy Points:
    181
    I agree about this if this were a video game console that is largely defined by its game library, but we are not talking about a video game console (or macOS) walled garden. And defining PCs by just Intel is a very limited viewport in 2020. With Windows PCs, the selling point has always been having a choice and the best choice here is not Intel, no, not by a long shot. Ryzen is now so much better in performance per watt, in performance, in efficiency, the difference is night and day. This recent Apple announcement has only solidified for us of the obvious realization we may fear to come to grips with: why keep settling for less? Why settle for week-old hamburger at the grocer when you can now get fresh-cooked prime steak for the same price at the new butcher down the street? The hamburger may very well be better than the mystery sloppy joe you had slopped every day onto your plate in grade school, but it just won’t age well. It is already stale and just does not have the taste or texture of that juicy slab of that premium, grade A fancy beef. It is not a good investment in comparison to the market. It would be just buying based on brand recognition and fossilized goalposts. Intel has resoundingly lost this match—using their own parlance, their processors are essentially Atom or Celeron class, outclassed by these new Core-class heavyweights from Apple and AMD. For the first time ever perhaps, at practically every price point, Intel is not a serious contender. Yes, 11th Gen is a bit faster than 10th Gen, but Intel does not compete in a vacuum. AMD and Apple are improving far faster in intergenerational performance gains and are now way ahead of where Intel currently stands. They are the worst choice for those who truly want to invest in the future and not the nostalgia of the past.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  8. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,034
    Likes Received:
    9,608
    Trophy Points:
    331
    Intel will sell into the enterprise, AMD will not. It is that simple. I know that is not "fair" to the good work AMD is doing, but the brand does not wear well with corporate purchasers. Above all else, that is MS' target market - consumer sales are just gravy.

    Go try using an 11th gen two-in-one or laptop, then we'll talk further.
     
    Chris_Kez likes this.
  9. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    3,603
    Trophy Points:
    181
    @sonichedgehog360
    You win, not only is AMD the answer to the surface pro, it will cure cancer and homelessness too :eek:

    Ok ,now that we have the silliness out of the way, let's talk reality. First of all, yes the latest Ryzens are superb x86 chips and do in some scenarios outperform comparable core I chips in things like standard laptops .

    The the jury is still out on 11th gen at this point BTW, especially when you factor in XE graphics which seem to rival or exceed AMD's prior strong suit which was the onboard graphics.

    Just as importantly, they still run hotter generally than comparable core I chips especially in small, confined and fanless enclosures (we and Lenovo have tested this extensively ) This is a key feature for us specifically as well as any company that is looking to put these in anything like a surface pro enclosure.

    The new ,at this point still mythical, 4.8 watt part might help here, but LOTS of unknowns about that including peak performance versus power consumption.

    So point to me any mainstream tablet like device from a major OEM. with a Ryzen Third tier Chinese vendors don't count.

    Not to mention that the chipset/Motherboard, that most would buy use to in a potential device is about 25% bigger in physical volume than Intels comparable core I chip sets. As has been discussed, the surface lines are incredibly packed component wise.

    Finally, surface pro specifically, AMD would do little to nothing , feature wise to address the desires for a new pro here or in corporate (and likely) consumer too. Those would be ...

    Display size/bezel- again that pesky issue with space

    Battery Life (corporate's single biggest gripe)- ditto, not a lot of room for say a bigger battery

    Connectivity- Going with AMD would do nothing to address that, and if say they decided to add a TB4 controller, which is integrated in the 11th gen core I chips, it would require more space for another at least pair of chips in what is already a tight space.

    And raw performance is actually way down the list for almost all buyers according to multiple sources including MS themselves eg. they tell our customers if the want the fastest surface device, buy a Surface Book.

    Finally your fealty to AMD makes you miss the broader sea change that Apple's M1 chips are and that WOA has the potential. to be (so far woefully unfulfilled) to actually change the way we use these devices. Everything from instant on, to stand-by for days, to integrated cellular technology, x86 simply lags behind. I won't even go in to the legacy mess that is Windows 10 X86

    Plus I've already gone in to at great length in other places the numerous upper level issues involved in an OEM choice for chip adoption.

    So "AMD, AMD, you're a fan! If AMD can't do it nobody can!" If that makes you feel better. :D:rolleyes:

    PS: @sonichedgehog360 Cross posting as you did with your earlier post both here and in the Apple M1 thread is at the very least frowned upon here and most places...
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
    Chris_Kez, nnthemperor and dstrauss like this.
  10. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,470
    Likes Received:
    3,424
    Trophy Points:
    231
    So I've been thinking about what a dream Surface Pro 8 refresh would look like; and I can't help but feel that even if MS implemented every single one of these suggestions, the SP would still come across as feeling...iterative.

    Basically with the new M1 Macs performing so well, even running x86 code under a translation layer, I think MS really needs to sit down re-assess the direction for all x86 hardware.

    The raving of the entire tech press has set popular consumer expectation at super thin-and-light, mobile-class battery life PCs, with above Core i5 levels of performance—that is the new bar.

    Microsoft needs to come up with something more here to compete...I'm thinking a very large meeting with all major PC vendors, including their own Surface team, to actually chart a multi-year course for Windows PC hardware.

    What can x86 hardware do that M1 Macs can't? Right now, it's true workstation, pro-grade productivity. So come out with devices like ConceptD 7 Ezel, Zephyrus Duo 15, Surface Studio for ultra-low-margin price points.

    Negotiate with Intel, AMD and Nvidia to make it happen. The future of all Windows PC hardware depends on establishing itself as something exciting and fresh for the consumer, at this critical juncture. Stop locking away the best of PC capability and innovative industrial design behind an unapproachable paywall.

    For the Surface Pro, that means rethinking Surface entirely. Stop with this separation of Surface Pro, Book, Laptop, Go...just one Surface: 11", 13.5", 16" thin-bezel sizes, customizable keyboard base/type cover options, pen always included, and the best damn hardware you can jam into the thing.

    Have a massive sale, undercut Apple, compete.

    This will all buy you time, while you figure out a long-term solution for beating WOA/10X into shape, and prepping for the next-generation of ARM PCs (and it's coming).
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
Loading...

Share This Page