Surface Pro 8 - Speculation and Rumors

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by dstrauss, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 AKA Hifihedgehog Senior Member

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    I understand your natural skepticism and rightly so since I am currently vocally pro-AMD given the advantages that I believe are core, central issues that resolve long-standing issues in computing. To flip around your characterization, I actually believe both AMD and Apple (as of yet) are the way forward here for the market. But I do not believe it will be only Apple because there are unique needs in both markets that Apple is not adequately aligned or uniquely equipped to cater to. For example, while Apple may not be interested and cut the fat of certain legacy or enterprise offerings such as SCSI, these offerings are standard issue in workstations, servers, and even a few high-end desktops.

    As far as the holistic nature of a system that you bring up which is important, then I would remind that latency is at a system's heart, where operations at the system level are largely asynchronous and highly random in nature. We have many more small and simple operations than long and sustained ones and that is where this factor of latency is king. Apple is still a ways behind in this arena of latency as that chart I shared shows and that is a point they may want to revisit as their architecture is more thoroughly explored and intimately exploited by developers.

    Besides the bandwidth-versus-latency tradeoff I mentioned, much of the other areas come as a product of them paying for first dibs on process technology. Much of the gains we see are a natural result of the process efficiency of 5nm and independent of the microarchitectural efficiencies that result in greater instructions per clock (or IPC). I predict AMD will continue to make strides and gain the "financial horsepower" that will allow them to get quicker access and higher volume of output from TSMC and perhaps Samsung in a similar manner to Apple.

    On the point of the debate of CISC versus RISC, noting that the low-level design that of both processor families is RISC in both cases, I contend there is no pure CISC or pure RISC. Instead of processors that are termed to be ARM and RISC-y and x86 and CISC-y, you see ARM and x86 processors across a diverse spectrum that incorporate both philosophies to one degree or another under the hood. If anything, perhaps one of the reasons Apple—unlike the other ARM players—has seen higher performance growth in their processors is by incorporating vectorization (they have an analog to Intel's AVX) and other CISC-y logic that gives them the performance advantages we are seeing unfold.

    One roadblock that has not been addressed here and will prove to make x86 emulation and virtualization a non-starter for many once the rah-rah-ing stops is that Rossetta2 is incapable of emulating AVX instruction and x86_64 virtualization mainstays. I noted above that Apple has an AVX analog in their instruction set toolbox. (Or alternatively, a more innovative and sure-to-be-headline-grabbing approach would be tapping into Metal since their proficient GPU is highly vectorized by its very nature.) So if they get enough development behind it which they should do while this rah-rahing is going strong and people are more willing to take the plunge, that hurtle should be easily surpassed in time:

    Sources:
    Everything you need to know about Rosetta 2 on Apple Silicon Macs | Computerworld
    https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/653902
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2020
  2. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 AKA Hifihedgehog Senior Member

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    So I think we have several clear possibilities from Microsoft as far as Surface Pro 8:

    1) Surface Pro 7 chassis with 11th Gen Tiger Lake-U dropped in.
    2) Surface Pro X chassis with 11th Gen Tiger Lake-U inside.
    3) Surface Pro (chassis is either #1 or #2) with a new Ryzen option like Surface Laptop.

    We could also mix in things like Thunderbolt and thinner bezels as additional possibilities. Which of these do you guys think is most likely and why? Go!
     
  3. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Is it just me, or is all this passionate discussion between the values and merits of Intel vs AMD vs Apple started to sound a little too....Political?Not to detract too much, but the past three pages of posts reads like the tech equivalent of US politics in the past year. I'm thinking Biden = Intel, AMD = Trump, and Apple/M1 is Bernie.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  4. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    We all know what the Surface Pro 8 will be. It will be the Surface Pro 7 with 11th gen intel, USB4 (but no remote mention of thunderbolt). No Ports will change (still one USB-C), same thickness, same bezels, same pen/keyboard...at best maybe we get a new color option. At best they will cram as battery in as humanly possible just so they can "Look" competitive with apples offering. But again it will fully backwards compatible with all accessories from the Pro 3 & up.
     
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  5. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 AKA Hifihedgehog Senior Member

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    To that, I say...

    #AllProcessorsMatter ;)
     
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  6. instred

    instred Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I think the Mandalorian's have it right. "This is the way" ;)
     
  7. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

    I just took three Tylenol to back up the three Advil I took before starting today's posts. Anybody around here speak English by any chance?
     
  8. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 AKA Hifihedgehog Senior Member

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    Apple M1’s done destroyed the entire market, Google, Intel, and AMD will all be declaring bankruptcy and as a concessionary gesture, Microsoft will be now releasing Clippy macOS edition to mark this historic occasion. To celebrate, we are all going to wear complimentary Apple logo bling necklaces and be working out of Starbucks from here on out.
     
  9. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    And notably, our Macbook's battery will last from store open at 5:30am until store close at 11pm. (kind of sounds like heaven to me tbh)
     
  10. instred

    instred Pen Pal - Newbie

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    How are we going to be working out of Starbucks when all of the Blue States have them only for takeout/drive-thru? But I wouldn't mind a new necklace.
     
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