Surface Pro 3 - NTrig digitizer comments, questions & reviews

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by mstoller, Jun 6, 2014.

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  1. johnchad14

    johnchad14 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Just did a quick test on onenote metro. I do get a little jaggedness on slow lines. I have to go quite slow to do it though, I don't see it affecting me in practice. I'm on unmodified sp3, no added wintab drivers
     
  2. wiidesire-2

    wiidesire-2 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    What about OneNote Desktop?
     
  3. johnchad14

    johnchad14 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I would say the same to slightly worse. Default in desktop seems to be thinner lines where the jaggedness is more readily evident.
     
  4. surfaceproartist

    surfaceproartist Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    @Geth, Photoshop exhibits the issue on slowly drawn lines. One of the many reasons I recommend Manga Studio/Clip Studio Paint for line art is its pen stabilization feature. The default highest setting is 15, but I sometimes crank it as high as 90 (though that can get pretty laggy). I usually use it at 45 on the Surface Pro 3.

    jitterTest.jpg

    This image was done on Photoshop CC 2014 (1920x1080, 300dpi) and illustrates the effect of drawing speed and zoom on pen jitter. I haven't tried running PS without the N-Trig wintab driver installed, but since the problem is evident in non Wintab software like OneNote, I don't think the wintab driver is the culprit. I believe this is a sampling issue that has to be corrected by software filtering of over-sampling noise.
     
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  5. manuelcalavera

    manuelcalavera Scribbler - Standard Member

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    @surfaceproartist,

    Do you think this will be solved by driver? Since it's been a long time that N-Trig has this problem, I'm not hopeful.
     
  6. surfaceproartist

    surfaceproartist Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Microsoft's Surface team is working on the pen control panel, so I have my fingers crossed.
     
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  7. johnchad14

    johnchad14 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Oversampling sounds logical. Sounds correctable too. Hopefully eh!
     
  8. Malamasala

    Malamasala Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Correcting it would be rather hard I assume.

    A tablet can't read your mind and know if you are drawing slow or fast, so the sampling speed will be fixed frequency and only slow or only fast lines will look good. However, you could apply advanced algorithms to this. "How far did he draw? How many points did we get? What is the general curvature for each distance? Do smart point reduction and smooth out lines." But since it is post-filtering, it means what you see while drawing is not what you'll get when you lift the pen. Which sounds like grounds for being very annoyed at never knowing what you are drawing until you stop, and then redo it and guess what difference you need to do to not get the filter to ruin your day.

    The quick solution is to draw faster. The likely help you get later with control panel is the ability to change to using only slow drawing.
     
  9. dceggert

    dceggert Owner of a TabletPC Museum Senior Member

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    Just as a point of reference so we all know the reference points, how slow is 'slow' and how fast is 'fast?' Is 'slow' 1" in 10 seconds or slower than that?

    I ask because I tried out my Atmel digitizer and drawing circles or lines at say, 1" in 1 sec, it comes out very smooth. When I slow it down there gets a point where my hand jitters overwhelm the forward progress and the lines look significantly less smooth.

    Just as a good guess, how slow is 'slow?'
     
  10. surfaceproartist

    surfaceproartist Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    @dceggert see my image a few posts back.
     
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