Surface Pro (2017) Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by spinedoc77, May 21, 2017.

  1. Tally

    Tally Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Anyone have issues with various programs freezing say for 10 to 15 seconds? I have the i7 8gb and get this with chrome enough to be noticeable.

    It seems I can get it to freeze somewhat reliably when i try to right click with the pen or touch on links in youtube (have the pro 4 pen right now).

    its almost like the pen drivers lag and freeze up the computer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  2. convergent

    convergent Scribbler - Standard Member

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    No freezes on mine.
     
  3. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Just a small correction to your terminology. Blinking refers to PWM brightness control (which even the SP4 uses a high-frequency version of). If you're sensitive to that kind of stuff, now that really would drive you crazy.

    The tech you are a referring to is actually called "sub-pixel shifting" which both LG WOLED and Samsung AMOLED display controllers employ.

    Considering the 216 ppi density of screens like in the GB12, I highly doubt you will be able to detect this at all.

    To test, pickup a Galaxy S8 and if you can stare the home button for more 2 minutes without going crazy, I think you're good to go. ;)

    Also, you might want to read this article about "burn-in" which really should called "temporary image retention" and basically is non-issue on modern OLEDs unless you are trying to ruin your screen:

    (Reviewed.com)
    "To get permanent damage, you'd need to keep an image on the screen for well over 24 hours straight."
     
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  4. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    @Marty - if screen burn in is not a problem, then why does Samsung force the screen off after two minutes?
     
  5. MobileTechReview

    MobileTechReview Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Burn-in is still a consideration for computer displays since they often display static images for hours upon hours (the Windows task bar, for example).

    The other reason Samsung turns the display off after just a few minutes is power conservation. We tend to have a lot of white windows displayed on our computers-- displaying white on OLED uses more power than do IPS or TN. OLED is very efficient with blacks (black require no power, the pixels are turned off), and that's one of the reasons why Lenovo often pre-installs a predominantly black wallpaper on the OLED ThinkPad X1 Yoga.

     
  6. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    The term "burn in" is being bandied around the web incorrectly. It originally referred to "permanent image retention" on plasma TVs, as explained by this poster on AVSForum.

    As the Reviewed article stated, you will not see this unless you deliberately leave a static image on for 24 hours straight.

    If you mean temporary image retention, this is mitigated by sub-pixel shifting and goes away when the display sleeps or refreshes with moving content.

    Just look the GB12 thread, there are zero comments about people being bothered by image retention, compared how many on the SPv5 thread complaining about backlight bleed/non-uniformity.

    I'm sure if you actually use an OLED display (hint hint, EMR's still waiting for you ;)), you'll be pleasantly surprised at how small this issue really is.
     
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  7. jjsa1985

    jjsa1985 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I think there is also a related issue that sometimes mistakenly gets called burn in. The issue is that the individual LED's themselves get weaker over extended use. The one that wears out fastest is the blue one, if I remember correctly. So when there are static elements on-screen, the LED's in that area will not be as bright as the rest of the screen after years of use, or if that element is black, like the Android status bar, or Windows 10 task bar, that area of the screen will be brighter than the rest of the screen. It will also begin to discolor because blue will be less bright than the other colors. That is why Samsung put larger blue LED's in some of their phones. I think there was a good article at gsmarena about that a few years ago. I recently bought a used note 3, and, granted, it is oled from a few years ago, but when I put the phone in landscape and put on a white screen, the place where the status bar would be in portrait is a different color. That's not burn in. That's the LEDs wearing out over time.
     
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  8. jjsa1985

    jjsa1985 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Here is a page from their Galaxy note 2 review:

    http://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_ii-review-824p3.php

    "The pixels of the Note II have one tall Blue sub-pixel on the left and smaller Green and Red pixels stacked one on top of the other. It's an odd arrangement, but it has three subpixels per pixel. The reason for the different Blue pixel size is that Blue AMOLEDs typically have a shorter life and making them bigger balances things out. Being bigger, the Blue pixel doesn't need to emit as much light to match the other two, which helps it last longer without affecting color balance."

    I realize that is old tech, but the point is LEDs have a life span, and that is a problem I don't think anyone has solved. Phone makers are usually happy if the phone can last two years. From my experience using amoled screens (original Galaxy s, s3, and now note 3) they all show signs of LED wear after a few years, which is not what some might call burn in.
     
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  9. jjsa1985

    jjsa1985 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    One last update:

    After I posted the above, I got curious to see if they commented on the life of LEDs in subsequent generations of amoled. There is a comment on the longevity of LEDs until as late as the s6 review, after which they just stopped commenting on it. Here is an example of what they were routinely saying, cited from the s6 review:

    "The diamond-shaped PenTile uses OLED sub-pixels of different sizes as each color has different levels of power efficiency and longevity. Sub-pixel rendering is employed to properly distribute each of the primary colors."

    http://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s6-review-1227p3.php

    No mention of improving the life of the LEDs in the latest tech. Just saying.
     
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  10. alextrela182

    alextrela182 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Latest generation OLED screen the efficiency on white is almost identical to LCD panel.
    Check out web browsing test between LCD and OLED panel smartphone.
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/10120/the-samsung-galaxy-s7-review/2
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/10871/the-huawei-mate-9-review/9

    Also web browsing between iPhone 7 plus-Matte 9 and S8+
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Galaxy-S8-Plus-SM-G955F-Smartphone-Review.213438.0.html
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-Mate-9-Phablet-Review.182825.0.html
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-iPhone-7-Plus-Smartphone-Review.173844.0.html

    As for the burn in there's option of movement action under the hood for example both AOD or home/navigation button even clock that prevent those issue so if Samsung can do that so MS or other OEM could do the same for example for the task bar or the icon on desktop.
    http://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-galaxy-s8-burn-in-issue-768623/


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
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