Surface Pro (2017) Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by spinedoc77, May 21, 2017.

  1. Omazic.iv

    Omazic.iv Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Prices in Switzerland are as well as you say robbery:
    Surface Pro i5/256gb/8gb = 1449chf
    Type cover = 179.95chf
    Total = 1628.95chf

    My current rig MSI gs43vr 6re i7 6700hq/ 128gb ssd+1tb hdd/ 16gb ddr4/ 1060gtx 6gb ram = 1750chf (purchased in dec 2016)




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  2. Azzart

    Azzart Late night illustrator Senior Member

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    The i7 8gb once you add type cover and pen costs more than what I just paid for the corresponding Surface Book...
     
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  3. bierot

    bierot Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Are you going to review the new pen?

    I really appreciate your generosity when reviewing devices for all of us. Your posts are very good and I've learned a lot from them. But sometimes a miss a deeper approach to the actual inking experience. I know it is no easy to share the drawing feelings because they are very personal. But a list of aspects to be treated in order to evaluate the inking experience could be:

    . Activation force. It could be enough to say the range of values within which it falls (for instance <10 gr / 10-20 gr / >20gr)

    . Jitter. Not easy to quantify, but it can be compared to other devices of reference (Apple pencil, Surface Pro 4 N-trig,...)

    . Accuracy when the pen is upright across the screen; for example in the central area and close to the borders.

    . Loss of accuracy when tilting the pen. For example, distance between the contact point of the tip and the cursor when tilting the pen 30 degrees

    . Hover distance. Some range of values could be established (<5 mm, 5-10 mm, 10-15mm, >15 mm)

    The importance of this features depends on the user. For some people the activation force is really important; it is not my case. But for me the loss of accuracy when tilting the pen is a real issue. For this reason, having this information all together could be a powerful tool for making good decisions when buying a new art tablet. This list, that I'm sure can be completed for some of the experienced members of these forums, can be a guide not only for the "professional reviewers" but for the occasional ones that just want to share their personal experience once they have bought a new device.

    I'm conscious that evaluating these features in a post is a difficult task, it may be easier to show them in a video (is the case of Lisa Gade). But I'm sure they can help a lot of people.

    I don't intent to give lessons to anybody because I'm just an apprentice, but I just wanted to enrich the knowledge we share in this forums.
     
  4. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I'm gonna say that even 60% of 13.5hrs = 8.1hrs is wayyy too optimistic.

    (Guys it's Kabylake, we already know that power efficiency only marginally better than Skylake...)

    The "real" rule-of-thumb :p is take the battery capacity ratio, and multiply by the average run time of your old machine.

    Here's a handy-dandy table to help you out:

    (surfacetip.com)
    [​IMG]

    So in the SP4 case: 49 / 38.2 x ~5 hrs = ~6.4 hrs mixed load. That's my bet for a 'realistic' run time... ;)
     
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  5. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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    Well, it's good to see that nobody is getting too excited about overseas pricing or is driven to post things in 36 point red font...

    Oh. Wait...

    On a different note, I swung by the local Microsoft store after work today in the hope that they might have the pens, but... no luck. So I spent a few minutes doing some things that might be of casual interest:
    • I think that someone on this forum asked if the SP4 tempered glass screen protector would fit the nSP (possibly it was @PhysicalTherapyGuy ?). The answer is almost certainly "yes." I grabbed an SP4 and held it against a nSP while comparing the locations of the cameras, light and mic. They were hard to see, but they looked to be in the same positions. So the cutout for the SP4 is compatible with the nSP.
    • Since there were no nSP pens, I grabbed an SP4 pen and paired it with one of the display nSPs. The pairing worked fine, but I then discovered that the Surface app was not installed. I tried to download it, but the Store looked like it was blocked. The Bluetooth pen functions didn't work, so I manually called up InkSpace and started inking. This is only an "eyeball" guess, but while drawing moderately rapidly, the lag of the inked line looked to be about half of what I typically see on my SP4. There was a Studio sitting across the aisle, and the lag on that device also looked a little longer than what I was seeing on the nSP, but not as bad as the SP4. So, SP4 was the baseline, Studio was shorter and nSP was shortest. I don't want to make very much out of this because it wasn't the correct pen, but it seems clear that Microsoft has improved the inking performance of the nSP.
    • Now that I had a pen, I also did a kickstand test. I set the nSP back until it was about 30° off the table top. I then placed my hand near the bottom of the screen and started to doodle while I placed a fingertip of my other hand on the edge of the kickstand. I'm sorry to report that as I doodled, I could feel the kickstand very gradually collapsing under the weight of my hand. I will admit that my position was a little contorted because I was standing and the tabletop was low, but I think this was an honest result.
    Hopefully that answers some questions...
     
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  6. b52hbuff

    b52hbuff Scribbler - Standard Member

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  7. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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    I don't understand your question with respect to the link that you've provided (i.e., what specific post are you pointing to?).

    If you're talking nSP, I don't think anyone's seen an i7; so I don't think anyone can provide an answer.

    The i7-7660U is nominally a 15W device, so I would guess a 30W AC adapter might do...

    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-7660U+@+2.50GHz&id=3016
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  8. b52hbuff

    b52hbuff Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Post 3851 from kvoram.
    http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/threads/surface-pro-4-discussion-thread.67857/page-386#post-489242

    Embedded in his post was this link:
    https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2...o-3-pro-4-and-docking-station-power-supplies/

    It made me wonder which power supply to get as a spare.
     
  9. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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    <<...Post 3851 from kvoram...>>

    ...Strangely, when I click on your link, I end up on a page with posts numbered in the 270's...???

    However, now I understand your question. My i7 SP4 (i7-6650U, 15W nominal TDP) uses the 36 W AC adapter (12V @ 2.58A). The i7 nSP probably uses the same AC adapter...
     
  10. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Stopped by a Microsoft Store today and got to check out the new Pro (not 5).......I was very impressed with it. I felt the light weight right off the bat. Maybe its the way the weight is distributed....but even with the type cover it felt really nice to handle and hold. Right prior to this I picked up the Galaxy Book 10.6.....and was rather dismayed at the overall thickness and weight. The New Pro in comparison felt perfect.

    The grilling on the top that used to be for the fans is now the speaker actually, since the m3 and i5 models don't have fans. And the more rounded edges felt alot more comfortable then you would expect.

    As per every other store, they didn't have the pens. But I did have my Wacom Ink/Dual Protocol Pen and it worked easily on the New Pro. I downloaded Sketchable and it performed nicely at first...but the pen would randomly drop in and out. Since the Ink pen is still very new and the Pros aren't technically finished yet....this could be and probably is a simple matter of waiting for the finished product.

    Overall after a few minutes....I was in love with the new Pro. However between my still working Pro 3, my Mobile Studio Pro, and my new Galaxy Book 10.6.....can't say I can really justify getting the new Pro. At least not yet....maybe in the Fall or Winter if they have a price drop or holiday sale. I would probably opt for the Fanless i5/8GB/256GB config....but like many others.....the potential thermal problems presented by a Fanless i5 do worry me, so I definitely feel more confident in waiting.

    On the matter of them making the pen a separate purchase. That's unfortunate for us here of course.....but I get why they did that. In the Wild (me sitting at Starbucks or random coffee houses).......I have seen quite a few Surface Pros and Books in the wild.....still no where near as prevalent as Macs.....those are still everywhere.....but in all the Surface devices I've seen.......I have never seen anyone ever use the Pen. Most of the time the pen isn't even attached to the surface. Artists are a niche....and I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft found in focus groups, etc that the Pen was the least used or least valued accessory to the broad general Surface market. So them pulling an Apple and making the pen separate totally makes sense to me in this regard.

    However.....since the Pen is released separately.......when the New Surface Pro gets released on June 15th.......if the pen is still not ready....Microsoft could fully launch the new Surface Pro without the Pen. No longer including it means it no longer has to adhere to the same release scheduled. To paint a pro of that.....lets say....all these Pen enhancements don't really end up being as stellar as we all hope.....for the next time they decide to upgrade the pen.....they can do so totally separate.....without needing to launch it with new hardware.
     
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