Surface Neo Pre-release Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by JoeS, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. jhoff80

    jhoff80 Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Potentially. But I think as Brad Sams (and others) have pointed out, this is definitely where they want Windows to go as a whole, not just for the Neo. (Though... who knows if the recent restructuring ends up changing those plans too.)

    https://twitter.com/bdsams/status/1227292757150048262
     
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  2. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    This one quote from that Twitter page is PRICELESS:

    "So basically Neo is the delivery system for the Methadone that is 10X for the Cocaine that is Windows 10?" @SteveBrock
     
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  3. jhoff80

    jhoff80 Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    The emulator is sort of interesting, but I feel like a lot of power users are going to feel really limited. And I get that some of this is just that the emulator is early and everything is still in the works, but some of it feels like design decisions that aren't going to change. Like... you can't use the desktop file explorer (except in the Containerized Win32 section). So none of the great OneDrive integration, but also only access to your user folder. Really overall just more of an iPad-like file experience.

    Back to fullscreen only for UWP apps. So even Sticky Notes are just a fullscreen experience and not like Sticky Notes. Honestly, Desktop/Win32 apps remind me a ton of Windows 8.1, where the 'desktop' is an app and all of your programs run in that context. Right now, there seems to be no way to make a generic Win32 app fullscreen across both screens. Though Chromium Edge Dev seems to have potentially been made to work outside of the Win32 container and directly part of the OS...I don't see the same "App Launch Initiated" window with Chromium Edge that I do with say Notepad.

    And like... which Office are they expecting people to use here? Most likely Win32 desktop Office, I'd imagine - the UWP versions have kind of been depreciated. But then you get back into that area where the Win32 apps feel second-class at the moment because of some of these design decisions. And I wonder - how is desktop Office going to cope with the lack of OneDrive in Explorer?

    Again, some of this will change, but I mean... I just can't help but wonder who this is actually for. I mean, I guess that's why they're focusing on this 'in-between' form factor at first, so that it can be the tech enthusiast's third device. But those same users are probably going to end up frustrated by the major software limitations. There's still a lot of time I guess before launch, but I don't know.
     
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  4. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    [​IMG]

    Well NUTS!
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  5. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    Sit down folks, as Thurrott warns - "I am in love with this thing [Windows 10X]..."

    Windows Weakly - at 13:30 mark...I have to admit, their discussion reinforces @jhoff80 's explanation over last few days (no, "Weakly" is not a typo).

    Frankly, the discussion is pretty good, and lines up with Jeff's analysis. Thurrott says it lines up with focusing on Win32 and using containers for ALL apps. Still, I have to wonder about horsepower requirement for this much separation of apps while preventing system wide crashes. As they discussed, it sounded a lot like the Apple transition from Motorola to Intel, and how they isolated "classic Mac apps." I still fear the "dumbing down" of the modern side of this OS to be more "iOS-like."

    Good luck Panos...
     
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  6. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    Windows Weakly? Good one :D
     
  7. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    A pretty in-depth first look at Windows 10X from PCWorld:



    As @jnjroach and @jhoff80 mentioned previously, even though the Lakefield chips feature "Hybrid x86 Technology", it looks like the x86 experience will be heavily de-emphasized.

    One question I have is if the registry, file system, etc. are locked down in the x86 sandbox, and all x86 apps run in a fullscreen-windowed instance of an RDP session, how will users actually make changes to config files, modding program directories, etc. within the sandbox?

    Will there be advanced x86 sandbox management tools? Any Windows Insiders in the loop on this?
     
  8. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    Some interesting quotes in that video:
    • Start menu - "Looks sort of like an app drawer for Android"
    • Web page spanning two screens - "Big huge gap in the middle which is not the best idea for a large screen tablet."
    • As for the base for Windows 10X - "Appears to be largely based upon Windows 10s."
    • Win32 Container - "The Win32 container is similar to a virtual machine...there's a little bit of a twist in that...Microsoft will use a remote or proxy app to get into them (container)...this is almost like a remote desktop..."
    • The Wonder Bar - "Wunderbar...really really cool."
    Take a lot of these quotes with a grain of salt since these are early days, and quite frankly Mark was overall positive about the future of Windows 10X. I personally like the dual screen ability - can see this is helpful for productivity in a smaller form factor overall - but do wonder how this is better than Windows Snap in a full screen device.
     
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  9. jnjroach

    jnjroach Technology Strategist Super Moderator

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    It looks like the standard set of APIs are available...I truly doubt that there will be a bunch of user customizations available unless you understand configuring Containers.
     
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  10. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    From within the x86 OS container, or as a Win10X system tool to modify the container? For example, can I open explorer.exe (x86) with sys-admin privileges?
     
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