Surface Laptop 2/3/4 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by JoeS, May 2, 2017.

  1. desertlap

    desertlap Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    @darkmagistric We aren't 100% sure, but we believe the only change is improved power efficiency with nothing affecting performance.

    The reason we suspect the Pro 7 + has it as well, is both that it's widely reported that the Pro 7 + has improved battery life and simply timing, eg the 7 + and the laptop 4 were likely designed about the same time.

    And just to throw a wrench in all this, the Pro X has a different pixel sense chipset which shows some different behavior at a software level. Though to date, it's all theory as in real world the user experience is more or less the same (anecdotally, pressure and tilt sensitivity is very slightly better on the Pro X).

    It's also possible though that the different chipset is just a side effect of being WOA versus x86
     
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  2. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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  3. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    Hogwash - for it to merit being the reference design that the reviewer is claiming, it HAS to include TB4. There is no other OEM today that delivers a business level laptop without Thunderbolt support. This is as stupid as shipping a laptop today with a VGA port...MS is doing a great disservice in this regard and I'm tired of apologists such as this guy, Rubino, Thurrott, and others covering MS' flanks.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  4. desertlap

    desertlap Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Maybe....
    As much as we here appreciate it and want it for our systems I'm almost certain the vast majority of users including in business, both don't know and don't care.

    And you can experience that real world with a quick call to either HP support for their Pavilion and Envy systems or Dell for their Inspirons and you will find the knowledge about TB close to zero.

    We had one of our customers just last week with an Inspiron that happened to have a TB port, get transferred ultimately after multiple efforts to Dell's precision device support group, just to get a fairly basic question answered which was what was the maximum power available on that port.
     
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  5. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    Wrong is wrong, and ignorance is no excuse. Business is the first to complain about government waste - they're doing the very same thing if they don't recognize the truth about what they are buying...
     
  6. desertlap

    desertlap Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I'm not sure what the root cause of MS reluctance is, other than I think their proprietary surface connector.

    A few months back they made some statements about Thunderbolt being insecure, but Intel pretty quickly sent out public info to disabuse that notion.
     
  7. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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    <<...for it to merit being the reference design that the reviewer is claiming, it HAS to include TB4...>>

    I think you misunderstand the meaning of "reference." In the technical community, "reference" means an incarnation that reflects the full intent (in features and behavior) of the intended design. Since Microsoft currently designs its computers without Thunderbolt ports, including one would be inappropriate for a reference design.
     
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  8. desertlap

    desertlap Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Spoken like a true engineer! :p
     
  9. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    Steve - I rarely disagree with you anymore, but that answer is like saying "we're going to play Texas Hold'em but I get to decide what is top hand" - and that reviewer isn't following your definition of reference since he is using it against all other reviewed devices:

    "However, Microsoft's 2021 flagship laptop has quickly become my reference device that I'm measuring many of my other reviews against. The Surface Laptop 4, by comparison, isn't the feature-focused champion other 2021 laptops have become, but instead, is the functional baseline devices should at least match this year."

    So if MS still included a VGA port, that would be a valid "reference design" within MS' definition of the intended design? Back to my analogy - MS can declare two pair beats three of a kind and that is valid?
     
  10. desertlap

    desertlap Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ok I'm going to "split the baby" a bit here.

    A "reference design" from a company like Microsoft which at it's true core is a software company and thus has a greater totality including most importantly user experience is very different than when Intel releases reference systems (which they do often) which is a showcase/best practices way of highlighting their latest tech.
     
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