Surface Duo Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by JoeS, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Have you ever tried messaging on Discord while playing a game, all on your phone? Let me tell you, it is not a pleasant experience. Many mobile games lack a chat feature, or if included, is so cumbersome to use while actually playing, that you never want to use it.

    And gaming is just one usecase that could see immediate UX benefits for the common user. Ideally you'll be seeding units to all devs, not just game devs (although I could see game streamers legitimizing dual-screens for at least that niche of heavy smartphone users).

    And I do mean every dev that applies can get one free. It would cost MS a ton of money, but I would hate to see the Duo flop like the SPX for lack of optimized apps.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  2. nnthemperor

    nnthemperor Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Is the Duo software that heavily customized? Watching the demos, I don't see any radical difference from the regular Android UX.

    Sent from my SM-P205 using Tapatalk
     
  3. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Oh I'm totally in the same mind that I want Apps to be optimized for the DUO, I've said many times I would love art applications like the soon to be incoming Android Build of Clip Studio to take advantage of the Dual Screen nature, like when you open clipstudio it would instantly put the canvas on one screen and the UI and toolbars on the other. Alot of Apps could totally benefit in many potential ways, but it requires significant additional development. The Samsung folds amount to one screen ultimately, so apps don't really need to be developed different. Baring those few random other dual screen phone options (2 come to mind, but I can't remember their names)...this additional development would need to be done almost exclusively for the DUO. But even if you give developers free Duos to use, as much as they would appreciate that, they don't develop for themselves, they develop for their users. Unless a developer thinks that a good portion of its user base could make use of a feature, they won't develop it. The DUO needs to be in alot more hands, both developers and consumers if we hope to get any significant app development done. And the high price point is direct opposition to that.
     
  4. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Clearly that supports my assumption that it really comes down to an affordable price. In your professional opinion, at what point does successful low price outweigh a failing high price?

    Like the Surface Studios are clearly the worst performing member of the Surface Family. Despite its lack of upgradeability, Mobile chipset, and poor port selection, the upwards to 3/4K price point is mostly likely to blame. So if they are losing money with every Studio they sell, that means the sales of the Studio are so poor that whatever sales it does get don't even make up for the production cost. So, lets assume, Microsoft does a random super flash sale on the Surface Studio...knocking the Price down by 50% to $1499 - $2000. And lets assume that flash sale is a massive success and Microsofts entire Surface Studio stock sell outs. Like which would be more profitable for them overall...Selling high volume for a massive loss, or selling super low volume for a somewhat equivalent loss? Even if the high volume makes a larger loss, it still gets them more customers, and the pushes the Surface Brand in more homes which could create future sales.

    You mentioned in an earlier post that even at the DUOs $1400 price point, Microsoft is still taking a loss, so if the DUO Flops bigger then Windows RT, obviously that would compound the loss they were already making, but if they sold the DUO for $700 and it sold considerably better, in the same context of my previous statement on the Studio, could that overall be a more profitable possibility for them?
     
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  5. djas

    djas Graffiti User

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    I see the Duo as for work - in the mold of a work phone, a work tablet & a work PC. A productivity machine. A device :) As such, I reckon companies/enterprises will provision the Duo as such & I am only interested in it solely for that millieu. Personally, for me, in work environment these devices shall remain. I wear a phonewatch off-duty & that is enough. :vbbiggrin:
     
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  6. desertlap

    desertlap Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    That's actually a complex group of questions. Starting with how does a company as gigantic as Microsoft make a determination on whether a given device (or piece of software for that matter) is "profitable". Of course you have certain fundamentals such as R&D costs specific to the device as well as build of materials. And then of course marketing and support services as well.

    But the complexity really comes in to play when the device crosses multiple product boundaries. In the case of the Duo, office 365. one drive and Azure come to mind as just some of them . I think it comes down to how holistically the company views this given product as part of the overall portfolio.

    To once again use Apple as an example , the original hard drive based iPods were allegedly a huge money loser for them and it wasn't until the first flash based minis they they became profitable in and of themselves. However those same devices enabled the rocket ride that was the iTunes Store and.... were the original DNA (along with the Newton another huge money loser) that eventually lead to the iPhone.

    And as a side note. Apple is the master of hiding its true intentions in things like this including disguising things that they are way outspending on versus sales in to the "other" category in their earnings reports.

    My quite possibly wrong take on this, is that MS saw what they thought was a promising bed of opportunities in multiple ways , with the Duo as the first device as the fruition of it, but that the same time there almost seems to be a degree of " well now that we have it, what do we actually do with it'?

    The eternal optimist in me thinks that this might be MS first genuine attempt even more than than any surface device or even xbox, to go "beyond the pc". If that's the case , I support that because IMHO the current paradigm of server/desktop/laptop has at best reached maturity and and more negatively, reached the end of real innovation. Phones and tablets on some type of fuzzy vague continuum might be the way foward.

    Additionally, it along with xbox, are the two products that could break the shackles of "Wintel" which clearly has not been in MS best interests for awhile now.

    So then it comes back to how much is MS willing to bleed/invest to use them as tools to boost things which are both clearly profitable and the future aka Azure and related services. And that I don't have a good feel for.

    PS: The Covid lockdowns are definitely not helping with my tendency toward verbosity :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  7. nnthemperor

    nnthemperor Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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  8. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I agree with that article fully. Its spot on with every concern I have.

    I think this little quote from the article sums up the problem with the adopting the DUO

    "And yet, this is ultimately meant to replace your phone. It has to be better than whatever is currently in your pocket."
     
  9. dellaster

    dellaster Creatively Talentless Senior Member

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    I was curious as to what a movie would look like on the Duo, but couldn’t find a single example on the web no matter how I searched. So I created one:
    upload_2020-8-15_19-32-2.jpeg
    Please ignore the sloppiness. It was tricky to do it all on my iPhone 11 Pro. :confused:

    I guess one could grow accustomed to the spine. Maybe.
     
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  10. nnthemperor

    nnthemperor Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Honestly, that would be the least of my worries. If I could afford it with all it's compromises, I'd be totally ok with watching a movie in the setting.

    Sent from my SM-P205 using Tapatalk
     
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