Surface Duo Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by JoeS, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    @dtsrauss, +10 for the catch of using the term "modes". that is so much better and more accurate as well !
     
  2. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    Fair enough, although I still think there's a chance that that was damage control, to obfuscate the fact that they can't do much better in this thickness. So my one remaining camera question boils down to this:

    "Do you believe that there are way better camera modules in existence that could fit inside this 4.8mm shell without adding a bump?"
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  3. Bishop

    Bishop Keeper of Odd Knowledge Senior Member

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    Quick hits:
    1. Don't waste your time with Verizon and eSIM. Either the Duo isn't configured for it or Verizon is clueless about how to do it. I harvested a SIM from my HP Elite X3 and am working fine.
    2. Contacts didn't populate until after I got the LTE service running.
    3. I think many of the reviewers reports of stuttering and navigation problems are user error. It takes a bit to get used to the navigation gestures. People already familiar the Android OS should go into Settings look for Gestures, and switch to the traditional 3 buttons at the bottom. I think that would fix a boat load of the complaints.
    4. You should go into Microsoft SwiftKey keyboard and tinker with its setup. There are lots of settings there to suit your preferences.
    5. Long format scrolling in "Compose Mode" is THE BOMB for web pages, Twitter, Reddit, messages and others. You can also get the split thumb keyboard mode.
    6. Having two different apps in full screen running side by side is a HUGE productivity booster. I was configuring one app, while browsing the Play Store for others, etc.
    7. Edge seems to be the one app that runs separate instances at the same time, VERY HANDY.
    8. Quick use of the camera requires learning to fold the device with the right hand screen to the back. You still get a flashlight option too. Not being a private eye or photographer for National Geographic, the camera will serve me well. Perfect camera? Nope. Good is not necessarily the enemy of perfect.
    9. Duo comes with Dark Mode/Theme on as default. For some reason the version of OneNote will only run on the system default mode, unlike the version of OneNote on the SGTA8 which is user selectable.
    10. Which brings me to an oddity: The versions of several MS apps on Duo are not as recent as the SGTA8 to wit:
    OneNote
    -on Galaxy Tab A 8 (2019 w/ S Pen):
    16.0.13127.20434
    -on Surface Duo:
    16.0.13001.20250
    Microsoft Launcher
    -on on Galaxy Tab A 8 (2019 w/ S Pen):
    6.2.200803.90831
    -on Surface Duo:
    6.2.200706.89890​

    I've got lots of work stuff to configure, but I'll try to get back later with some of the Pen stuff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
    Kumabjorn, dstrauss, Steve S and 6 others like this.
  4. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Boiling it down, yes, staring with both aforementioned BSI modules or even taking a lead and using something like a Foveon based sesnor instead of bayer based. (of course the software to effective use a Foveon sensor is orders of magnitude more complex). Not only that, they could possibly have shifted things around to make room. One specific example is they could have used asymmetrical batteries eg. put a smaller battery on the side that has the camera.

    Of course that might have the side effect of making the device less balanced in the hand (again trade offs). I 'm sorry if I come across as lecturing as I certainly don't intend to (job hazard I suppose). I always prickle at "absolutes" when it comes to technology such as a bigger sensor is inherently better as they are exceeding rare when you add other factors in , including software or optics. eg. the best sensor in the world is going to suck with a mediocre lens in front of it, or half a$$ed software behind it.
     
  5. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    The version disparity in MS apps should get addressed next week. Short answer is that they are currently out of sync because of the duo specific functionality. The unified versions will go out to all soon though the Duo specific functionality won't be available on something like an S20

    PS: Verizon being clueless when it comes to things like e-sim is both common and deliberate. The best advice we give in these cases is to just take a working sim from another verizon device if that's possible and just move it over and not even bother with engaging Verizon.
     
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  6. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    Those are advanced next gen sensors, but given that a company like MS buys their components, they'd need to find a ~4mm tall complete camera module that includes said advanced sensor and the lens assembly. Are such advanced modules available for bulk purchase at the moment at 4mm thickness? Or are you saying 'psh easy, they should just build their own integrated camera module with advanced tech, duh!'
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  7. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    This is a good setting to keep, because AMOLED uses power proportional to pixel brightness. Dark mode = longer battery life. BTW thanks for the bullet point impressions, very efficient to read! :thumbsup:
     
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  8. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    The main sensor in the Note 20 is BSI based.

    As to thickness I'd have to look again, but I think the foveon is available in a 3mm sku though it is considerably wider than the bayer modules which would require different optics.

    This is getting waaaay off topic so perhaps we should table for now?
    PS: Imaging sensors of various types are key comments of our custom devices so that's my background in this.
     
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  9. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    Sure, but I feel like the narrative "well, they just decided not to focus on the camera" might be disingenuous. I can't take that as the true reason unless someone is willing to say something like "sure thing, this here 4mm module is available off the shelf, and it's $10 per module, and it's way better than what's in the Duo, so they should have used that". Something like that might exist, and that would be fantastic for version 2, but so far I haven't seen it. Anyways.

    Hey, how about this question, does the (oh no...) camera on the Duo have OIS? iJustine's video looked a bit unstable.
     
  10. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    it does not have OIS which would make it thicker as well ...:p:D

    BTW: I genuinely enjoy these discussions/digressions.

    And also consider that the camera was probably one of the very earliest decisions made when they decided on the form factor as well as again they didn't want to release a $2k plus device. Allegedly the camera module is the second most expensive device in the iPhone 11 pro after the display.
     
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