Surface Duo Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by JoeS, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I remember originally hearing a "Christmas" release also.

    I'm starting to wonder if the whole COVID thing plays in to this. e.g. they committed to production while they had all the hardware components available and weren't certain that would be the case in December.

    And as with many things. once production was committed they had to have the software ready and perhaps MS underestimated the effort needed. Not unlike that last couple of bi-annual core windows updates:oops:

    PS: We are almost 100% certain RAM is not the issue, regardless. Look how well the pixels run on 4GB. The reviewers that cite that are guilty of lazy journalism
     
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  2. yodamiked

    yodamiked Do or do not. There is no try.

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    On a more positive note, from the reviews I’ve read, the battery life appears to be pretty decent (despite a lot of concerns given the size of the battery and having to power two screens).
     
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  3. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    It does have all the earmarks of not being left in the oven long enough...

    I think the camera is not as big an issue as they make it - if you want the PDA functionality the camera is not going to deter you. If, like me, my phone is my camera, it is a deal breaker.

    The 6gb RAM is a bigger concern. We have proven in the last few years that you can never have too much RAM, so whether it was supply constraint, the fact it was designed a couple of years ago, whatever - it should have maxed out the RAM for multitasking.
     
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  4. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    I was thinking that Android could struggle allocating memory for two big apps running side by side simultaneously. is that not to be expected?
     
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  5. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    Lazy journalist reporting for duty - SIR! :vboops::vbwink::thumbsup:
     
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  6. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Possibly, but not necessarily.

    Most of us, myself included are pretty locked in to the the X86 Windows model where the solution to more/bigger apps is almost always served by more RAM. Android (and for that matter IOS or any ARM optimized OS ) much more aggressively manages RAM and software resources. How well that's done (and something I was hoping for with MS taking it on) is a much bigger factor. By far the best example is IOS with 6GB RAM clobbering Snapdragon systems with 12GB. Chip design has a significant part to play as well, but it's not the only thing.

    It gets back to an engineering maxim that often constraints are what generates true innovation.

    PS: Our lead ARM person starts his intro for new employees on what we do with "first of all, throw out most of what you know about software/hardware design that's X86 centered..."
     
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  7. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    In that case, maybe there's hope that MS and Google can make some changes to improve multitasking on these kinds of devices.
     
  8. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    Just noticed, since the preorder went live four weeks ago, we've made more than 200 posts per week in this thread. Impressive!! :cool:
     
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  9. jhoff80

    jhoff80 Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    One of the things that seems to be a recurring theme in many of the reviews is how little interest Microsoft has in modifying the base Android. I'm sure Microsoft is committing changes and all, but it seems like the majority of this is going go be on Google. I mean, launcher or camera glitches, sure, that's all Microsoft. But in the core memory management and all that, seems mostly Google's problem to deal with.
     
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  10. desertlap

    desertlap Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Maybe, again Android is different , for instance the launcher is a key "master component" for better or worse and why for instance Samsungs launcher and skin are gigantic both in code size and memory footprint.

    At a more fundamental level, X86 windows has the kernel and the core OS components and then various libraries that are loaded at startup and pretty much stay that way. Android (IOS Too) loads a lot less at startup and keeps much less resident at any given time. Thus the need for much better management of those resources.

    To give an overly simplistic example, if you cold boot an android device and start up the camera, the audio resources that are loaded if you instead say launched Spotify aren't initially present or vice versa.

    This gets back to the roots of arm which was orginally designed for resourced limited devices like mobile or embedded systems and thus lees things like RAM and disk space.

    Not to mention that ARM is much more about clocking up quickly and then throttling back or moving the process to a more efficient core, to conserve power among other things where as X86 for a big chunk of its life has been about ever faster core clock speeds until it hit the ~4ghz or so wall. And 90% of windows is still built with that design bias.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
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