Surface Book Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by DRTigerlilly, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. AmbiDextrose

    AmbiDextrose Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Interesting read here:
    http://electronics.stackexchange.co...or-pcb-mounted-components-to-avoid-vibrations

    Manufacturers typically work with the product designers to "fine-tune" their designs for manufacturing so the call to use glue to affix the batteries to the chassis might have been made by Microsoft's manufacturing partner. When I was in product engineering, I remember a few times when our manufacturer would come back and say "you can't put your LEDs here" or "your tolerances are way too tight to be realistic".
     
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  2. Mesosphere

    Mesosphere Geek. Senior Member

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  3. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Bonding the display stack with itself, yes. Any slight micron reduction improves optics.

    Bonding the entire display to the body (which also serves as the service hatch)--totally unnecessary, imo.

    So far I've heard the points:

    @AmbiDextrose
    1. no mechanical contact points that can loosen over time or can be damaged
    2. 'sealant' that limits dust particles
    @jnjroach
    1. adhesive approach allows them to keep it thinner
    2. adhesive used adds to the devices being both audibly more quiet
    3. also adds to blocking the above ambient RF noise
    I'll try to address each one:

    #1: I think this point is kind of moot, because the adhesive will itself weaken with time/re-use and glue is susceptible to loosening from ambient temperature, etc. I've never had a mini torx screw get stripped before, but I think possibility is rather smaller than the above problems with adhesive.

    #2: Good point, for within the display stack. But I am talking about the entire display-to-body connection. Dust enters via vents, so adhesive does nothing to block dust in this situation.

    #3: Glue adds a slight thickness too. The main issue with screws is that require thread holes, which introduce minor layout constraints, but it doesn't necessarily impact thickness.

    #4: If you closely on most OEM screws, they also have small silicone coating on the threads and screw head for this same purpose--it doesn't have to be glue. Also, I doubt the mechanical vibrations would be more audible than the fans which are generating the vibrations in the first place.

    #5. Could you explain in more detail? I'm not familiar with RF properties of glue, but as far as I know, they don't have any shielding capability.

    That was a pretty interesting read. I guess we're not the only ones that nitpick engineering choices. :) However, I noticed in that discussion they seem to pointing out many more disadvantages than advantages for glue.
     
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  4. Vaga

    Vaga Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Maybe it's quicker to apply glue than to screw in several screws. Save on labor and also churn out more units at the same time.
     
  5. AmbiDextrose

    AmbiDextrose Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I don't know, man. Some of the structural adhesives used on today's cars are now replacing welds and rivets. And they're rated for a lifetime of 30 years even with adverse environmental conditions.

    Personally speaking, I haven't run into a case where adhesives used in computing devices (e.g., notebooks, tablets, cellphones, hand-held game consoles, et.al.) lost their adhesiveness before their next upgrade cycle - the ammout of heat required to reactivate (or re-flow) these types of adhesives are typically way above the thermal operating characteristics of the device itself.

    Well, there was that debacle with Samsung's Series 7 Slate a few years back but my unit didn't have that problem (i.e., glass separating from tablet) and seems to have been caused by using low-grade adhesives to bond the glass to the chassis.
     
  6. Chard85

    Chard85 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    - By lag you mean delay between drawing a line and seeing it appear? Hopefully that isn't noticeable in Manga Studio/Photoshop
    - From what I've heard the wavy line issue can be solved with Lazy Nezumi
    - Is hover distance still functional? As long as it doesn't result in frequent instances of drawing something due to your palm hitting the screen before the pen.
     
  7. AmbiDextrose

    AmbiDextrose Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Yes, by lag I mean the ability of the cursor/drawn line to keep up with the tip of the pen. On FreshPaint, the lag was very noticeable, almost comical. However, in OneNote, the lag was barely noticeable, if at all present. MSPaint also didn't show any pen lag. Even with very fast strokes, there was no noticeable lag and no skipped lines.

    Isn't Lazy Nezumi a Photoshop plug-in? I believe MangaStudio/Clip Studio Paint also has settings that can counter-act the wavy line problem. However, even though I didn't have access to both software, the effects of wavy lines at slow drawing speeds was negligible (i.e., I didn't see them).

    Both SurfaceBook and Surface Pro 4 had excellent palm rejection - no stray marks as a result of me laying my hand on the screen as I wrote.

    I spen a total of 45 minutes with both devices. I'll probably go back this weekend to do more hands-on testing.
     
  8. Chard85

    Chard85 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I think Lazy Nezumi can work in anything. Overall, you sound like you've probably used a wacom device or two in your life. Do you think you'll be happy with the Surface as a primary art tool/wacom alternative?
     
  9. AmbiDextrose

    AmbiDextrose Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Yep - I've had a number of Wacom-enabled devices from Toshiba's M4, M7, Thinkpad X220T and the Samsung Series 7 Slate. I've also built a couple of DIY-Cintiqs from recycled Toshiba M4 and M7 screens.

    My Primary use-case for the Surface Book is for numerical analysis and writing applications that need to handle large amounts of data. However, I do use OneNote heavily and do illustrations whenever I can (as my stress-relief).

    For my primary use-case, I still need to run more intensive tests so I need access to the device for at least two weeks. As an artist device, I need to (personally) see and feel hot it performs under Sketchbook Pro, PaintTool SAI, and Clip Studio Paint. But, if the performance and feel is similar to OneNote, I think we have a winner.
     
  10. ATIVQ

    ATIVQ V⅁O⅄ Senior Member

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    Intel and Microsoft promised the GPU-accelerated "Precise Touch Technology" pen input for the new Surface devices, which should have eliminated any pen lag over 1/60th of a second. I guess they didn't deliver.
     
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