Surface Book 3 Discussion Thread (May 2020)

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by JoeS, May 6, 2020.

  1. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    There's a new Book in town! Still no TB3 though.

    [​IMG]

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...rface-book-surface-go-and-surface-headphones/

    Specs from Windows Central
    • Wi-Fi: Intel Wi-Fi 6 + Bluetooth 5.0
    • RAM: Up to 32GB LPDDR4x
    • Storage: Faster, up to 2TB (15-inch only)
    • CPU: 10th Gen Intel Core
    • GPU: Iris Plus base, GTX 1650 Max-Q (13.5-inch), GTX 1660 Ti Max-Q (15-inch), Quadro RTX 3000 (15-inch)
    • Charger: 102W (13.5-inch), 127W (15-inch)
    • Audio: Dolby Atmos
    • Battery: 17.5h claimed, depends on use
    Pricing from Windows Central

    Surface Book 3 13.5 Consumer models
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB, Iris Plus $1,599
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 16GB RAM, 256GB, GTX 1650 $1,999
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32GB RAM, 512GB, GTX 1650 $2,499
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32GB RAM, 1TB, GTX 1650 $2,699
    Surface Book 3 13.5 Commercial models
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 128GB, Iris Plus $1,699
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 16GB RAM, 256GB, GTX 1650 $2,099
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32GB RAM, 512GB, GTX 1650 $2,599
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32GB RAM, 1TB, GTX 1650 $2,799
    Surface Book 3 15 Consumer models
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM, 256GB, GTX 1660Ti $2,299
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32 GB RAM, 512GB, GTX 1660Ti $2,799
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32 GB RAM, 1TB, GTX 1660Ti $2,999
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32 GB RAM, 2TB, GTX 1660Ti $3,399
    Surface Book 3 15 Commercial models
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM, 256GB, GTX 1660Ti $2,399
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32 GB RAM, 512GB, GTX 1660Ti $2,899
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32 GB RAM, 1TB, GTX 1660Ti $3,099
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32 GB RAM, 2TB, GTX 1660Ti $3,499
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32 GB RAM, 512 GB, Quado RTX 3000 $3,499
    • 10th Gen Intel Core i7, 32 GB RAM, 1TB, Quadro RTX 3000 $3,699
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
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  2. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    I was going to simply type "I told you so!" 100 times, then caught my petulant self and decided to be more professional...

    WTF MICROSOFT!

    Seriously, 2020 and no Thunderbolt 3 (much less USB4) in your hero device in the Surface line? $3400 at the top end with no future-proofing? I just happened to watch MacBreak Weakly yesterday about the new MBP 13, and they had a very serious and spirited discussion about how far you should upgrade, including whether or not to go i7, 1TB or 2TB SSD for the average user, etc. But the consensus was that MacBooks are 5-7 year devices if you take care of them, so load up on what you will need down the road, not where you are now - what does that say about a $3400 laptop that doesn't even have TB3?

    I would accuse MS of resting on its laurels, but you have to have some before you can rest on them...surely they are not serious about competing with HP, Dell, or Lenovo, much less Apple...:confused::eek::(:rolleyes:
     
  3. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I am a little miffed they decided to chop off horizontal resolution from 4K on the 15" unit to achieve 3:2 again.

    With the new emphasis on studio use with the RTX3000 version (and I'm sure a ridiculously bonkers price tag to go with it), I really hoping I'd to be able to see a 1:1 4K preview, at last.

    Dell got the right idea on the XPS 7390, but alas it is 16:10. Want 3:2? You're back to not quite full res.

    Agrh, the Microsoft dilemma rises again.
     
  4. Steve S

    Steve S Pen Pro - Senior Member Super Moderator

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  5. YVerloc

    YVerloc Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Oh so underwhelming. No digitizer improvements? At all? No chassis redesign to get rid of that ugly keyboard deck and Doc Ock hinge? Just a spec bump? Outrageously underwhelming.

    Have they stopped developing Ntrig? They're just going to leave their digitizer performance as it is?
     
  6. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    Seems like the base models now come with Iris Plus graphics, rather than UHD 620. From what I recall that's a pretty major upgrade, right?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  7. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    In the tennis sense, or in the 'nothing but net' basketball sense?
     
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  8. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I'm also find the Book 3 extremely underwhelming. Its everything that was more or less leaked....and thats the problem. They also don't seem to really be intent on pitting this against the Macbook Pro at all.

    First....not totally surprised....but No Thunderbolt 3.....again....omg how backwards thinking can Microsoft be.....that is an embarrassing omission for a premium device in 2020. It kind of was back in 2018.....but in 2020.....they deserve every criticism that gets thrown at that for that.

    Going from USB 3.1 to 3.2 on both the Type A ports and the lone Type C port was at least charitable.....I suppose......but.....they could have still made so many minor and much needed changes.

    What they should have done....put a Type A and a Type C port on both sides of the Book Dock........(I hate having all ports on one side) so they keyboard base would have 2 Type A and 2 Type C....accessible from either side......and include a 3rd Type C port on the Clipboard Portion....so when docked it would open up a 3rd USB-C port.....but also allow the Clipboard portion to be more capable on its own.

    What they should have done......add a damn kickstand to the clipboard portion.....that's been constantly asked for since the Book 1.....given the Clipboard portion is between the thickness of the Pro X and Pro 7....they could have easily added that.

    What they should have done......given some love to the Slim Pen....even if they didn't want to improve the pixel sense chips.....the Slim pen operates better then the normal surface pen.....its overall just a better pen....heck the promo render video Microsoft put out for the Book 3 even shows the slim pen being used instead of the regular Surface Pen. All they would have to do is include the magnetic charging slot in the keyboard base...they wouldn't even have to make a physical slot for it.....given the bump when the device is close...the slim pen could just magnetically rest and charge on the center top of the keyboard dock.. And that would also be a preferable way of stowing the pen instead of on the side....since it would be more secure in a bag or during transport since the pen would be less likely to get knocked off.

    What they should have done........offer a better high end graphics card.....All 3 of the options are relatively mid-range for 2020 (the highest end Quadro option doesn't seem like it will be easy to get, its not even listed with the specs)....ThunderBolt 3 could help remedy that for some use cases......but as is....they should have taken the graphics a step up. Like they should have put the 1660ti in the base 13 inch model instead of the 1650....and then offer the 15 inch models with either the Quadro RTX 3000 or a GeForce RTX 2070 or 2080......at least one high end option with at least 8GB of vRam.

    What they should have done........although this would cut into the battery life.....or thermals given the form factor....but in compassion to the Macbook Pros.....one of the biggest drawbacks of the Surface Booka 1-3.....is they all use the same class of 15w ULV CPU. The Macbook Pro's only use 15w CPUs for the lower end configs of the Macbook Pro 13....the higher end models of the 13 use 28w cores.....and the 15/16 inch Macbook Pros use 45w cores.......Microsoft is putting too much focus on Graphics performance and not enough on CPU performance.....granted the TDP can be raised up on the 15w cores to about matching the 28w range.....and the whole Clipboard format may make it difficult to engineer....but they should put more focus on CPU bumps. Like jury rigging the Book 3 to 15w when in clipboard and 28w when docked. Or the reverse....put a 28w CPU in it....and just dial it down when the clipboard is detached.

    What they should have done.......a minor gripe...but they should have enlarged the trackpad.
     
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  9. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    not really.....I mean it is better....but not enough to warrant getting the Book at all......You would be almost better off just getting the Pro 7 (which have Iris now) and a Brydge Keyboard if the more traditional laptop form factor is desired.
     
  10. cbutters

    cbutters Scribbler - Standard Member

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    When microsoft posted all over the internet with the headline "The reasons why we don't put thunderbolt in surface devices." We knew it wasn't going to happen. I'm not surprised. I agree... its 2020 we needed TB3 in the device. At the very least they should have offered TB3 through surface connect via the new dock. (not sure if that is technically feasible though)

    Now that I've gotten that out of my system... Onto the good stuff:

    Yes; externally it is the same old; but we did get quite a few new things:
    • Studio Microphones (having used one on SP7, it is a decent upgrade)
    • New hinge fastener design (2x quicker supposedly)
    • Ice Lake 10nm w/ Iris Plus & 64 execution units is solid graphics for the clipboard portion. (Despite all the complaining on reddit; 25-28 watts on Ice Lake 10nm is a considerable amount of power)
    • 32GB Ram and 2TB nvme ssd options
    • We got an RTX Option (RTX is mostly useless until you get into a 250 watt class desktop device)
    • 1650 and 1660 ti options are appropriate for the weight class of the device. (despite the complaints I hear all around... If you actually look at benchmarks and the hardware specifications; the 1660 Ti and 2060 perform similarly and architecturally are the same device except one doesn't have RTX (but RTX is useless on the 2060 anyways... IMO) There is no 13" 2in1 that has the power of a 1650 Period. Closest thing is a 15.6" Yoga C940
    Previously I've jumped back and forth between the SB2 13" and 15" because I dabble in VR applications; I loved the 13.5"; but wanted more power so jumped to the 15"... but it was too big and then note taking became a chore. So I'd move back to the 13" but I'd miss the GPU power... It was a vicious and expensive cycle.

    As a huge fan of the 13.5" Surface Book Form Factor; a few issues aside I am ecstatic with the launch. I believe I'm finally going to have the perfect device for me; The amazing easy to carry form factor; but pop-off clipboard for note-taking; yet still powerful enough to run almost any GPU intensive application. (the 1650 is very close to the 1060 performance of the SB2 15")

    So with those hopes; I've ordered the maxed out 13.5" SB3 as I think it will fulfill my needs and last me a very long time.
     
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