Spectre x360 14 OLED 3:2

Did you try it with any newer MPP 2.0 pens like the Surface Slim Pen or older SP5 Pen?

Also, 3rd party pens like the Renaisser/Raphael 5 have reportedly gotten good results, while the Bamboo Ink Plus has performed consistently poorly in MPP mode (including in my own testing) as discussed in the N-Trig pen thread.

The problem is they have consistently produced poor MPP implementations for multiple generations of Spectres over 5 years now.

It's not a matter of QA procedures at this point—it's a fundamental engineering problem they need to solve. Maybe you could nudge your HP reps to look into sourcing higher grade digitizers from Elan...

 

@Marty That wasn't what I was really addressing with my comment. It was based on what I think @dstrauss was experiencing which was poorer performance compared to last years 13 inch x360. And in that case it's basically the same albeit updated tech.

As to the broader issue of which pen tech they use. sadly, starting with something as basic as inertia, there simply aren't the incentives for HP to make a change, certain vocal elements like those here not withstanding.

And I'll admit to possibly being part of the problem. Not by choice per se, but because even though I'm a committed regular pen user, the differences between the various tech, while I can detect them side by side (s-pen wins) simply aren't big enough (again for me) to significantly influence my buying decisions one way or another.

And I suspect that there are a lot like me, perhaps even the majority

BTW: To give a quasi related example. Despite demonstrable evidence of the superior performance of most of our custom devices when they run Linux, just north of 70% of our customers opt for Windows anyway

 

Update on Pen Performance - Thanks for the explanation @desertlap - I put one of Bishop's Apple Pencil tip covers on the HP Tilt Pen; it fits good; adds traction (more pen on paper feel); no more tapping noise; and ink is significantly improved. I wouldn't say it is even Surface Pen good, but at least usable.

D**n you Microsoft for going N-Trig - it was a cheap a** copout, and I don't care one bit about the performance/stack excuses when they switched from EMR after Surface Pro 2...

 

So, I'm surprised there's been no discussion of the Intel Optane/SSD in this sale model. I bit for one on the previous model only because it was so, er, affordable. I mostly turn the Optane off because it is constantly updating its cache and eating cpu cycles and heating up the Spectre and that means I have mostly ultra-slow QLC SSD, which seems noticeable at times, but it's generally better than the constant Optane interruptions. All the data from Anandtech seemed to bear this out.

Thoughts? Your experience thus far @dstrauss?

Not just academic on my part; I seriously want to upgrade from 8GB.

 

@lovelaptops Jeff you didn't ask me, but that's never stopped me before

This is one piece of tech that actually performs considerably better in real life than in benchmarks. Additionally according to Intel the new 11th gen EVO laptops are even further optimized for it.

The simplified reason that they haven't benchmarked well, is that while the 32GB module portion is in the top tier , the larger bulk storage modules are definitely middle pack. But.... the X factor here is the software that manages the drives and constantly optimizes itself as you use it. And it doesn't get the opportunity with a benchmark., unless you run them 3 hours a day. 5 days a week....

The theory is that most of us do a majority of our work/play with the same core set of apps. It thus tunes the caching versus long term storage based on what you access frequently versus rarely and/or how often you modify existing files.

Additionally with the EVO instant on feature, it takes advantage of that and the power efficiency of the cache module compared to a standard SSD.

So a couple of things. My wife has the previous X360 like @dstrauss had, and she was more than pleased with the performance.

Second, based on what we've seen it's one of the better bang for the buck options , all things factored in, including price for capacity and general speed.

It is not ideal for people that work with giant raw image files, do 500,000 items database sorts, or run a web server. (get one of the upper level Samsung EVO drives for that) but for me and my family and how we use our computers they are solid.

PS: I wouldn't under any circumstance disable or even break apart the two modules as that defeats the purpose IMHO and you should again be looking at one of the Samsung or other high performance drives out there instead.

MY two cents anyway. and I do think you will see a lot more of them in the market as the OEMS like the cost size ratio. And the integration with the EVO platform makes it even more so.

 

Thanks @desertlap. I didn't name-check you but I certainly hoped to hear from you. So, I don't believe @dstrauss had the Optane in his 2019 model, so I'm curious as to any observations with the new one. Additionally, I'm not sure if you're saying the power improvements address this but what I hate about Optane is it's constant cache updating that hogs cpu resources and causes heat that revs the fan. I used it for 6 months before trying it without Optane caching (via Intel app) and found the slightly noticeable slowness was more than offset by the absence of the aforementioned annoyances. Anyway, that was my experience with the 10th gen 17/8GB/512GB version I paid all of $799 for a year ago and has served me well though some combo of the SSD and 8GB RAM has me wanting to get the new one at this steal of a price - again. Thanks again, Jeff

 

I do have Optane in my x360 13 - no real problems that I noticed...

What he (@desertlap) said...

PS - the price is huge surprise to me - that's a LOT of improvements coming in at $200 LESS than I paid last year for this model. Screen alone is a great improvement, but add in the 11th gen processor, TB4, and improved keyboard/trackpad layout, it has to be the value leader of 2020.

 

So the cache updating is supposed to be something that gets reduced over time with "typical" workloads but we as a group are anything but typical

We have only just received an EVO system to test and have only done the very basics so far. Intel tells us that with these EVO systems, it's essentially Optane version 2, but is not at all clear what that actually means. I'll post here if we find anything significant.

 

Back to the pen - if you are using OneNote 2016 turn off pen pressure in Advanced Options - at least it stabilizes the inking and stops vectoring.

• Got the Bamboo Ink to work by changing batteries, but Windows 10 reports the brand new battery is at 63%
• HP Tilt Pen is just not usable without a sleeve covering the tip
• Neither comes close to my Apple Pencil on the iPP11 2018

 

So indirectly related to the new HP and the choice of optane, I'm seeing a "trend" that I'm not fully understanding. I'm seeing this with HP, Lenovo and Dell.

Basically all three seem to be bundling their top end consumer systems with the highest resolution displays with the 1TB optane storage solution.

OTOH if you go with a smaller and/or FHD display, they are bundling a smaller 512GB straight (though mid pack performance) SSD.

I suspect this is likely due to Covid related supply chain constraints. What i think it means at least short term, if you want the top end specs and/or display, you are going have to wait a bit for more BTO options such as a straight SSD.

Examples in the dell consumer line below.

15 inch with UHD display and XE discrete graphics and 1TB optane
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-i...ssd-32gb-optane-black/6432554.p?skuId=6432554

13 inch EVO platform with UHD display and 512GB Optane
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-i...32gb-optane-pen-black/6432551.p?skuId=6432551

PS: One option for the more intrepid here would be to buy one of these stock solutions and replace the SSD yourself. So we have only put hands on the Dell, but in that case it's good news and bad.

The good is that the slot does support NVME drives. The bad is that taking the Dell apart to replace the drive is not for the faint of heart.

PPS: Even though it's not OLED like the HP, the LCD in the 13 is top tier, and very well calibrated out of the box, albeit with only a mediocre color gamut (though it does support HDR video)