Sony Vaio Flip PC

Discussion in 'Sony' started by Taikero, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. Taikero

    Taikero Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hands-on: Sony’s latest Vaios are convertible PCs done right | Ars Technica

    I'm more excited for this convertible than I have been for any device in a long time. The 15" model has everything I'd want as a developer: a 2,880x1,620 display and dedicated graphics with an intelligent convertible design. It's a conventional laptop when needed, and a large-scale, on-demand note-taking device.The only thing I can fault it with is the current lack of pressure sensitivity in some applications, but Sony mentions (Sony announces VAIO Flip PC, looks to steal the IdeaPad Yoga's thunder) that it's coming, at least for Adobe products.

    I know the display size, resolution, and dedicated graphics are all things we've been hard-pressed to find in pen-equipped devices, so I think this device will be exciting for many in this community.

    As an aside, does anyone know if current N-trig digitizers support pressure sensitivity in Microsoft OneNote?
     
  2. Steve S

    Steve S Scribbler - Standard Member Super Moderator

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    <<...does anyone know if current N-trig digitizers support pressure sensitivity in Microsoft OneNote?..>>

    ...They used to, at least through DuoSense Version 3.5. I'd be surprised if DuoSense2 didn't possess that capability...
     
  3. vozie

    vozie Pen Pal - Newbie

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  4. hiI'mawesome

    hiI'mawesome Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Since June, I've been waiting for Samsung to release the Ativ Q, but when I saw this device unveiled by Sony at IFA I didn't even care what happened to the Q (it was "cancelled" this year, if you were wondering). So now I'm very excited by this device because I wanted a windows 8 convertible that had this type of form factor (and if I want android--like the Q had--I can install a VM), a large, high res screen, an active digitizer pen, useful ports, and great specs. I've been reading the same news stories for 3 days now, and only one hinted at pricing/release date info by saying Sony would first announce European pricing and availability. (also the first story you posted suggests it will be released in fall). But has anyone come across more concrete evidence of pricing and availability, or does anyone want to make an educated guess? (i'm coming off an agonizing, saddening, painful, tantalizing three month wait for a device that never saw the light of day, sorry if I sound anxious).
     
  5. ogi

    ogi Pen Pal - Newbie

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    @hiI'mawesome:
    Well, there is a press release at http://presscentre.sony.eu/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=9070&NewsAreaId=2

    In the German version it says that it will be available at the end of October (end of November for the high-res 15"):
    http://presscentre.sony.eu/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=8861&NewsAreaId=2
    Not sure about other countries, usually things are available in the US long before they are in Europe.

    Oh, and by the way, I'm also in for a tablet/convertible. I've been looking into that for quite some while now (still on my old MacBook Pro) and so far I have never seen a machine that really "convinced" me. The closest I got was with the Fujitsu T902 (brightness, no backlit keyboard and bulkiness being the main concerns). It seems that Sony has nailed it with the new flip, at least for me (main purpose for the Stylus is to annotate/write things down during lectures, so N-trig instead of Wacom will totally suffice).
     
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  6. J0ebiden

    J0ebiden Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hi hil'mawesome, I was in the Ativ Q forum as well and now have migrated over to this Flip forum. I think there are more pros to the Flip than there are pros to the Q, at least for me. Q is thinner, but Flip is lighter, Q has Android (just a perk for me, don't care too much about that), and the Q has the crazy resolution. But for the Flip we can go up to 8gb ram and an i7. And, of course, the Q doesn't exist :) But hopefully the Flip will actually materialize! The one hesitation that I have is the Sony Vaio brand itself... I used to be a huge Sony fan, in general, but have steered clear from them because just about every single device I've ever owned from them has had some sort of issue. That said, I've heard good things about their laptops, however, we don't have to look too far to see some of the issues with the very new Duo 13. Do you have any thoughts on this? Much appreciated.
     
  7. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    So here's the thing. As awesome as this looks to me, I'm still not certain this would fit my needs as well as the Fujitsu T902 has so far.

    Being an animator and someone who likes to be able to start and finish a large project that would normally be done on desktops, computing power is very important to me. The ULV CPU and inability to get in the unit to upgrade concern me. The Sony Flip does hit a lot of the right notes even though it has Ntrig (which is slowly becoming a much more viable option to more than casual artists) and doesn't appear to be user upgradeable (user replaceable battery?? Hard to tell, but considering the Duo 13 isn't I can't see this one having it).

    Things it would have over my current system (T902):

    -Better 3D capability (dedicated GPU. finally) although I only dabble in 3D, I would probably get more gaming use out of it.
    -larger screen, larger resolution. 15"!!
    -Lighter (Don't really care about this one, the T902 is light enough for me)

    Since the T902 has 2 batteries, they'll probably have similar battery life.. 8-10 hours on saver, 5-6 in performance.

    Same amount of RAM (up to 16 gigs) although I can easily put my own in much cheaper in the T902, same as the SSD. So I imagine the Flip would be CRZY expensive in my config.. estimate the i7, 500gigSSD, GPU and 16 gigs RAM would put it at easily $3200+ in store, which would be a hair more than if you upgrade the i7 T902 yourself with same specs minus the GPU.

    But the CPU realy does make a big difference in animating large Flash files. So big. I can try animating on the Duo 13 and it really struggles with the large files due to the lower clock cycle. Even in turbo boost, the ULV CPU isn't even hitting the BASE clock of the i7 3520M. I think most users will not care or need that extra power, but for animation having a 35 + watt TDP makes it useable as a desktop replacement, and this thing is so close to it, but still sticking with such a thin form factor that it could never hope to sport a quad core or even dual core regular voltage.

    I was really hoping that the 15" configuration would offer more robust CPU options, but it looks like they are featuring the same CPU in all 3 configs. Shame, because I think the CPU will be the bottleneck of this computer with such high RAM, ssd options, and thankfully the dedicated GPU.

    I REALLY hope FUjitsu doesn't become influenced by this market and switch to ULV in their T903. It would mean I have the last of the true powerhouse generation convertibles, and would make many future iterations less ideal for 2D animators, FX animators and film editors.
     
  8. Zero

    Zero Scribbler - Standard Member

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    The 15" Vaio Flip does interest me quite a lot but I'm hoping Fujitsu releases something to compete with it.

    Fujitsu knows how to make a proper tablet so I'm waiting for them to announce what they have been working on.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
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  9. Zero

    Zero Scribbler - Standard Member

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    The T902 has a backlit keyboard but you would have to select a Windows 8 configuration to get it.
     
  10. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    I think, for the vast majority of people, they'd be happy to trade 1/2" thickness and a reduction in 2 lbs of weight for the difference in cpu power between a t902 and a Flip 13. Even more so, I think there's a real market for a super high-res 15.6" penabled tablet pc with a dedicated graphics card that would weigh the same amount as the t902 but be 1/4" thinner, but with a screen over 2" bigger. I'm pretty sure, stonseeker, that you will be a pretty rare bird.

    What I really think is going to happen is that thinner and lighter, with better battery life on a ULV Haswell device will rule the roost for this coming generation of devices, but that once we get to Broadwell you'll see a new jump in power for those true power users, because heat dissipation will be so much less. Eventually, we're going to get a quad-core cpu in a tablet pc. It's all about die-shrink, right?

    As for myself, something like the Flip 15 is well within the range of what I'd consider a substantial upgrade, assuming pen-input is on target. I'd get a thinner, lighter, tablet pc with better battery life, all while getting a faster cpu, a dedicated graphics card, and a bigger, higher res screen. LOL. That sure seems like win to me. In truth, even the Flip 13 seems like a good option-- same screen size as my current device, but about (quite literally) half the weight and thickness, all while still getting better battery life, a faster cpu, and a touch and pen-enabled HD screen. Sure... that sounds like a move forward.... !!!! :D
     
  11. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Yes, your certainly right that the majority of people looking at these kind of devices are not the same ones who need the quad core CPU's. Still, the macbook Pro aren't using them. They know that their user base is serious about getting heavy photoshop work done etc etc. which is what differentiates the AIr from the MBP. I think this thing is more specced out like a MBP than a Air aside from the CPU. I'm pretty sure the power would be welcome in many content creation circles. Heck, just try opening up a 300DPI poster sized painting on a ULV. Not gonna be smooth, which rules out some comic artists from buying this device instead of a macbook pro.
     
  12. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    It's a great machine, but its weight is not one of its strengths. At 4.6 lbs for the Fit 15 it's heavier than the T902!
     
  13. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Fair enough. Of course, it's a 15.6" screen versus 13.3". That's a pretty huge difference.

    The Flip 13, which is the same size screen is half the thickness and weight of a t902 though. I'm not saying size and weight are everything, of course, but for a lot of people they matter a lot. I know that t902 offers a lot of power in that build.

    The better comparison is my older x200t to the Flip 13. My x200t has the same basic size, weight, thickness, and build as the t902, but is waaaay, waaay less powerful. For that kind of comparison, the Flip is a clear winner.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
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  14. ogi

    ogi Pen Pal - Newbie

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    @Zero:
    Thanks for pointing out the backlit keyboard on the T902. I knew that it was announced and I searched for it, but last time I checked it out I couldn't find it (German Fujitsu site, though).

    @stoneseeker:
    Totally agree on the ULV processor (I think Sony advertises the smaller versions of the Flip as Ultrabooks so maybe ULV is a requirement there, but still a pity that full voltage is not offered as an option on the bigger models. At least the upgrade pricing for Sony seemed reasonable to me, ehm, coming from Mac-land). By the way, another issue with the Flip is the glossy-only screen...


    Both machines would do the job for me (and I think that both, Fujitsu and Sony, make reliable "business" laptops/convertibles, which is even more important than the pure specs).
    So far the Flip has the edge for me, mainly because of the size. If the T902 were 15" with a brighter screen (and a dGPU) ... well, still some weeks before I buy, maybe we'll hear some news about the T903 by then.
     
  15. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Indeed. Screen size is important to me, but if I could get a brighter, 15" screen on a Wacom t903, then h*ll yeah, I'd get that.
     
  16. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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  17. bloodycape

    bloodycape Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I think it maybe the app, if you have read Stoneseekers review thread for the Duo 13, which has the same specs, he said that with the right app it can be a night or day difference. Though in some apps, at higher DPI, the ULV cpu does start to become a hamper.

    I really like the Flip 13, and it it isn't much bigger than the Duo 13, while offering the same or better battery life, it could be a real winner. That said I really hope Sony also brings out a 11in variant.
     
  18. Zero

    Zero Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I'm expecting Sony to out do Lenovo. ThinkPads are too cheap to compete with Sony products now.

    Even if Sony uses N-Trig , it should still be pretty good.
     
  19. ChrisRS

    ChrisRS Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Not just artists. A large screen tablet would be great for AutoCAD. Still single threaded so speed not cores matters. I would trade the extra weight for full voltage.
     
  20. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Agreed. No one has yet caught on to the market for a "professional mobile work station", where the goal is semi-mobility, but never at the cost of power. I think there's a real market for expensive 5 lb, 15" penabled, full power tablet pcs. It's probably pretty small, but the mark up could be high, because pros would pay it for the right machine.
     
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