Sony VAIO Duo 11

Discussion in 'VAIO / Sony' started by excalibur1814, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. Hannibalj2

    Hannibalj2 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I feel sad that the M6600 "17.3" incher was a misunderstood beast. I personally feel is the best tablet PC to date for calculation performance wit a digitizer as long as you don't depend on wintab drivers. This is the most powerful tablet made to this date.
    The problem is that if you pay attention to most people the first question they ask in any new product with digitizers is "How Photoshop runs". Photoshop doesn't even have the best drawing engine, although since cs4 and on has greatly improved. But that is how it goes since Photoshop is the best photo re-toucher there is and adapted by companies worldwide.

    Most people who look at the M6600 don't really know that it is actually very comfortable to draw on this unit. I don't draw on paper since 2006 and therefore I am use to working on cintiqs with a 120 degree angle. I usually place my keyboard directly below the cintiq. So the M6600 fits this exact setup. The hinge will stop at around 140 degrees and will stay very sturdy like a table. So I can lay my palm and put enough pressure on it without causing any problems. The hinges on the M6600 are strong to support extra hand weight.

    The performance of the N-trig is great as long as the apps that you use can use Microsoft native pen tablet drivers. For example here is a small list of some of the art apps that you can use with if you disable the wintab drivers.
    1. Illustudio (by celsys) better than Photoshop for illustration, and same makers of Manga Studio and Retas Pro line of products
    2. Manga studio 4 EX (For comic book creation)
    3. Sketchbook Pro
    4.Toon Boom Harmony 10 ( based on a friend who has my unit and uses for 2d animation)
    5. Toon Boom Storyboard Pro
    5.Tvpaint 10 (not older versions)
    6. Mudbox
    7. Art Rage
    8. Digicel Flipbook
    9. Modo
    10. Sketchbook Designer 2013

    So here are some software that I can to work well on the N-trig. But this are the ones that I use often on n-trig. If I need wintab then i will use an array of unit that I have, list is too large to mention. Because I still use older generation software that still have not implemented Microsoft pen tablet drivers I have to use wacom digitizers. For me it makes no sense to get the Duo 11 since I own the M6600 for power and have the same tech for art. The Ativ can run any software since is wacom and gives me the alternative of using any software and portability.

    However if you like the form factor that the new sony has to offer then don't be discourage because more apps are starting to be compatible with Microsoft native pen drivers. If the industry start to move in this direction then you don't need to worry so much on whether it is a wacom.

    One thing to keep in mind, N-trig is not as mature as wacom and therefore the feeling experience is yet to be match. The closest to wacom is Hanvon since it is a wacom digitizer at heart. The second would be Bostos and close third will be the newest generation UC Logic and fifth the Waltop.

    I would put the N-trig between the Bosto and the UC logic in performance. The other thing that N-trig does need to think about is improving design he ergonomics of the pen tip. It just doesn't compare to some of the other competitors. UC logic for example has a carbon copy of the older Cintiq line pen except the eraser. And as far I know Wacom lost the patent for battery-less pens so they should look into that move as well.

    The new Sony Pen ergonomic looks like they are going in the right direction so I will try purchase one of them and maybe do a review of the M6600 as a tablet pc. Since technically you can call it that as it is what i use it for.
    For those who are looking to n-trig units, there are plenty of software that can use the digitizer and expanding. BUT, and this is important. IF and IF you DO NEED WINTAB ONLY software DO NOT and I mean it, DO NOT GET IT. since you will hate the performance.

    Anyone looking for desktop power and ridiculous Quadro card performance, Extreme Cpus and digitizer with LOTS OS SCREEN STATE then look no further the M6600 can not beat. It isn't as portable as an ultrabook ...Duh. But if you are drawing and then doing graphical intensive apps and heavy rendering then who care how portable. I is about 8 pounds of pure performance.The M6700 will have a wacom 10 multitouch option but nothing mentioned about been able to use pen.


    Cheers
     
  2. TheGuac

    TheGuac Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I'd like to chime in on the Ativ vs. Duo debate. I bought an Ativ 500T tablet when it first came out but returned it a few days later. Despite the great battery life and the nice weight, the form factor was odd, the resolution was wonky, and the actual tablet functions were laggy. In fact, the only application that wasn't laggy while inking was journal. The pen felt cheap and plasticky and I just couldn't justify the price in that regard. I just bought the Vaio Duo from Abt (core i7 model) and it is great! N-trig definitely isn't as mature as Wacom but I don't have a big problem with it for the tasks I use it for (writing notes, doing things in Adobe). The screen is also gorgeous. My only worry is the stability of the hinge over time and the battery life. I have a trusty Sony Z from four years ago and it is still running strong. I love that computer and decided to stay within the Sony family for my next computer. As this is also built in Japan, I'm hoping it will last a while.

    I'm going to buy a case for it now and see what the battery life is like. I'm hoping I don't need the sheet battery.
     
  3. Hannibalj2

    Hannibalj2 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Great that is working for you. I will mentioned something in regards the ativ. I have noticed that most of the negative comments are based on the 500t which isn't to be compared to the 700t series. The display of the 700t is every bit as sharp as the duo 11. Both units have very glossy surface so they are very similar next to each other. I think the duo can be slightly brighter whi h would be better for outdoor viewing.

    Ai have the i5 is is just as snappy as the i7. Actually there will be no difference on perceivable performance between the i7 and the i5. The difference you will notice between the untis will be when dealing with the extra ram that the duo can handle which it tops at 8 vs 4. And you will shed off some seconds when rendering between the two CPUs.

    if I'm correct the duo i5 with the same model i5 on the samsung the duo still runs faster. it seems that the way Sony built it's unit using the keyboard section for extra placements and ventilation allowed them to set the performance of the CPU to be slightly faster that the ativ 700t with the same CPU. However this will explain why the ativ gives slightly better battery performance. The duo performs more aggressive and faster at the expense of battery life vs performing slower to save battery.

    I submitted my benchmark of the 32megs prime and I came with a 27 sec. Vs the same CPU i5 of the duo which outputed 23 sec.

    Anyway this is just my observation.

    the duo looks great but don't think the ativ 700t isn't.

    Cheers
     
  4. GoodGame

    GoodGame Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hi guys. Can you post the screenshots performance windows 8?
    Interesting difference is the middle and the top model.
     
  5. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I am in love with the specs for sure, and would gladly sacrifice the portability for power in a all-in-one unit instead of the desktop-cintiq set up. Problem is, I rely on pressure sensitivity in adobe suites (wintab) that only wacom provides. So I had to settle for the second most powerful tbaletPC, the T902.

    Is the screen on the M6600 gorilla glass coated?? How is it for drawing on constantly? I got the impression from the web page that it was an afterthought, and they didn't intend the buyer to actually use it in the way you are.

    Could you really call it a tabletPC though? It never really tries to ergonomically be a "tablet" just a PC...? semantics I suppose.

    would love to see a video of you drawing on it. I still can't imagine it not tipping over or flexing a little while drawing on it the way you described. I'm jealous of those specs for sure though. I also am an animator, although, where I live I gotta settle for 2-D Flash and the occasional creative After Effects job. I was trained classically, but sadly getting traditional animation work is tough unless you work in California or move to a large center like that.

    I do mostly principle character animation, and fx animation for various TV shows that I am generally not very excited about. haha So I suppose the T902 fits the bill for power for my needs, (the 16 gigs is sufficient for after effects) but a quad core and dedicated GPU has always been on my wish list for a wacom unit.

    I would love to read a full review from an artist perspective on the upcoming M6700, I really hope they stick a full wacom digitizer (stylus too) on there. I would sell my T902 I think if it did.
     
  6. Fluffyfurball

    Fluffyfurball Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I'm interested in more info too (new thread?) on the M6600. I echo stoneseeker's sentiments although it looks like inking on the 6600 seems like an afterthought. Apologies for taking the thread on a tangent. - Rory
     
  7. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    yes, please start a new thread Hannibalj2.

    I just did some research and apparently a rep from Dell (ManoG) on the notebook review forum confirmed that the M6700 indeed uses a WACOM digitizer!! however, I am dubious as to the stylus being useable, or if it is only touch? Does wacom even make "touch only" screens?? I would think if you had a wacom pen it would work on the screen if it was in fact Wacom?
     
  8. ArtInvent

    ArtInvent Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I sketched much of the day yesterday on the Duo. I want to like ArtRage but I still find it far faster to have hotkeys assigned to brushes. It's faster even without pressure sensitivity. So I went back to my favorite MyPaint. This drawing took about 8-9 hours total including opening layers in Gimp to make some adjustments. Of course I was fine tuning my brushes a lot and that slowed me down. I think on paper it would have taken about 5 hrs, but then I usually scan, make some more adjustments etc.

    Stylus I continue to like, but the buttons! Great to have two buttons - terrible that they are completely flush and impossible to find. If you glued some raised tabs to them you could probably find them - but then it wouldn't fit in the slot!. Argh. They could have made them recessed a bit, anything would help.

    What I really like about the digital process is that I can now print this on a fine art paper of different colors - the drawing has perfect alpha transparency so even printing on a dark paper will be possible. Almost impossible to do this with scans of light pencil drawings on paper - you will get light gray halos and trying to eliminate those ends up with artifacts.

    I find the screen angle and firm support fine for sketching with left hand on the hotkeys. Sometimes I found myself needing to lift the front edge of the keyboard to get a better angle. If you draw for hours you will need to switch it up a bit. I drew outside and the screen is pretty good outside in the shade. I can even draw in portrait mode and hit hotkeys with my thumb. Not perfect but certainly doable.

    Right now typing this with the front edge of the keyboard up on my gel wrist wrest that's about an inch thick. Nice. Island style keyboards I find hard to type on because I have long classical guitar fingernails on my right hand. They tend to hit the plastic surrounding the keys because it's too shallow. The left hand - no problem.

    I am going to get another gel wrist wrest to stick in my bag with my bluetooth mouse. BT works great


    Again, MyPaint - no pressure sens. Original is about 4000x5500px

    ELSA LOOKING UP 03 sm.jpg
     
  9. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Not that you have to like Artrage, !! :) But you can assign hotkeys to the different brushes. Are you wanting to assign a hotkey to a specific preset? If so, you're right-- Artage doesn't allow that yet. But each tool has a hotkey, and it remembers what preset you last used when you used that tool.

    I should try MyPaint again. I've really only given it a cursory attempt. You're not the first person to like it. What do you like about it so much? What are its basic strengths and weaknesses?
     
  10. e-schreiber

    e-schreiber ƒ(x) / fashion Senior Member

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    Hold on. You sketched that kid using the Vaio Duo 11 and its N-Trig Pen?! So N-Trig can't be so bad.

    A question to those that used N-Trig before (Gen 3.0 or 3.5): Is the N-Trig digitizer on the Duo 11 better, the same, or worse?
     
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