Samsung Notebook 9 - 13" and 15" flippers with Windows 10 and spen

Discussion in 'Samsung' started by violajack, May 30, 2017.

  1. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I have no hope on that front. It looks exactly like PWM to me. Check the screen flicker thread for examples.

    Also.., any similarity between an incandescent bulb and LED light oscillation is pretty thin. One is an analog curve smoothed out almost to nothing by the nature of the light source, (white-hot filament). To even see a flicker in a filament bulb, you need either a crappy bulb or you need to reduce the current enough so that the filament never reaches its full-on design state. Look at videos of bulbs turning on in slow-motion; there's no flicker.

    This is why incandescent is so much more pleasant to be under than say, a fluorescent tube. They produce a smooth signal.
     
  2. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Could you show me an example of 200+Hz PWM being captured at 60fps or lower?

    From my understanding, to get that prominent of a strobing pattern (as in the video), you need a shutter speed that is approximately the same speed as the PWM.

    Remember, I'm not saying that the panel isn't using PWM, I'm saying that a normal 60fps camera couldn't capture the flicker as shown, unless the panel was using ~50-70Hz PWM (which is unlikely).

    Although incandescent light bulb flicker never drops to zero brightness as you mentioned, note in the video how the brightness still decreases substantially (I'd say ~30%) each cycle.

    Here is another example:



    Fluorescent light bulb flicker is actually very similar to incandescent flicker:



    All I'm trying to say here is, you shouldn't immediately jump to the conclusion that you'll need to use 100% brightness to get imperceptible flicker.

    It will depend how your own eyes react to the PWM frequency. Take for example this video of the SP3 vs SP4:



    If you watch the first test, it looks the SP4 doesn't use PWM (as many reviews incorrectly concluded). But keep watching and you'll see that there is PWM, just the effect is more subtle, but people notice it.

    Thus I would never trust one brief clip within an informal review video to judge something like PWM. It's too uncontrolled of an experiment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  3. harrodeleted

    harrodeleted Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I got to play with a 15" notebook 9 yesterday, here are my thoughts:
    It's a really nice feeling laptop. Great weight and buld quality. The screen is beautiful. Yes if you go close you can see pixels but everything is razor sharp and the colors and brightness are great. It has an "outdoor" mode that is blinding inside.

    The fans are very quiet, but it blows out a lot of heat. This is a problem when you put the screen back with the keyboard behind it, as the heat does blow onto you/your hand.

    The s pen is super accurate and pressure sensitive (of course). Also will work with the larger s pen that works on the galaxy book (also of course)

    It unsurprisingly was very snappy and responsive, and the keyboard felt great, as well as the very large trackpad.

    Samsung has installed a whole bunch of programs, but they mostly seem useful. Programs for transferring, backing up, making the computer speed faster or slower (then have a quiet mode setting that makes it run at a lower cpu speed without the fans on, and a "max power" mode that makes the fans rev up and goes all out).

    It's a really beautiful machine, and if I didn't have the galaxy book I'd get it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  4. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Animator and Art Director Senior Member

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    Is this only being sold by Best Buy exclusively? Is there going to be other versions sold elsewhere? So far, no Canadian retailers that I can see. I assume our Best Buy will get them in eventually, probably 5 months from now.
     
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  5. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    It's looking pretty grim for us Canadians.

    There aren't even any units on eBay.

    I'm sure there will be some trickle down over time, but it sure would be nice to see some units in Staples or somewhere like that!
     
  6. JMac

    JMac Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Couple of video shorts by Samsung extolling the benefits of the S Pen:




     
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  7. stoneseeker

    stoneseeker Animator and Art Director Senior Member

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    wow. Those were terrible! WTF Samsung, surely you can come up with better ways to show off the S Pen superiority.
    #cringey
     
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  8. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ha ha! Correct me if I'm mistaken, but was that the first ad spot ever extolling the virtue of a stylus silo?

    And now that N-Trig and AES are a thing, having batteryless tech is something to crow about. Deservedly so.

    These ads are dippy, but they do make me smile simply because they're right -and because somebody (with ad money) is saying so in a place other than this forum!
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
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  9. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    No. Because it's too much work for the wrong reasons.

    A properly functioning incandescent light doesn't have an impact on the nervous system, not in the same way an LED system can. (Or how old CRT screens did). There's quite a body of literature on the effects of strobe lights on cognition.

    -One of the more stand-out examples was that of subjects hooked up to an EEG machine, when asked to look at and solve a math problem would express entirely different brain wave profiles depending on whether they were looking at the problem on a CRT versus a piece of paper. The CRT profile was a fair approximation of a light hypnotic state.

    No it's not. There's a world of difference between a highschool overhead tube and a modern curly fry. -I was referring to the former.

    -And LED PWM is another whole game altogether, because with LED tech, off is off and on is on. LED backlights have no technology at all incorporated into them which attempt to smooth out the wave form. LEDs are so sharp in their on/off wave that you can easily encode high frequency data signals over them. -I saw a video where a guy rigged an audio transmitter using an LED and a solar panel. -So even when one video example of flicker looks less offensive than another, (the SP3 versus the SP4) it means very little. In the low frequency range where PWM for brightness control takes place, the effect is extant regardless of the video recorder speed, and despite its being invisible to the human eye.

    And what I'm saying is that I don't need or (I'm sorry to say) value your opinion on this subject. Both because I suspect you're just being argumentative out of habit, and also because you don't seem to know enough to be helpful. Sorry, Marty. Maybe next time.
     
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  10. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Cool, could you link the study?

    Alright, I'm sorry I didn't organize my points as well as I should on this topic. I'll try to reduce everything to one salient point that you'll hopefully find useful:

    Last year's Dell 9550 UHD model doesn't use PWM, however note the comments:

    "Screen flickering at low brightness settings (at < 40% brightness; fixed since BIOS 1.2.18)"

    Firmware can affect the display controller and cause flicker. Don't be so quick to judge a display based on one recording.

    My guess is in that clip of the N9P, you are seeing a firmware bug at low brightness (and not evidence of a horrible, unusually low-frequency PWM).
     
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