Samsung Notebook 9 - 13" and 15" flippers with Windows 10 and spen

Discussion in 'Samsung' started by violajack, May 30, 2017.

  1. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Thanks for the detailed reply, Stone. I'm actually in very similar situation to yourself: I've got a pretty powerful desktop + Cintiq and a pretty powerful Z Canvas as tablet. There is actually no "real" technical reason to upgrade...

    This is what I was fearing, is that there are Canadian tablet enthusiasts, but they are very much looking for economical "side-tablets", rather than new $2000+ daily drivers.

    At this rate, I'm not even sure Samsung will launch the Pro 15 here. The tablet market seems extremely barren and dry...

    ...and that is why I've never actually gotten a chance to try Wacom AES in-store!

    Have you seen even any older AES tablets like XPS 12s, Spectre x2s, Yoga 14s in any stores? They all seem to be online only and almost never at the bargain basement prices you see on in the US.

    I fear for the tablet market here, I don't want our only options to be Surface Pros... :(
     
  2. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    For a machine costing $500 USD ($700 CAD after shipping and other BS), I could justify that Dell AES 15.6" 2-in-1 I was using for a while. Even recommend it. But anything approaching or over $1000..?

    No way.

    AES is strictly minor league.

    Which is not to say a skilled artist can't make it work. You're just going to be 20% slower and more miserable doing so.

    -I used cheap water colour paints for years; the $10 for 12 tubes sets. Then one time I decided to take the retailer's advice and buy the $75 set. I was amazed. It was like removing exercise weights from my ankles and wrists.

    You can get both to work, but if you are skilled enough to notice the difference and be appreciably slowed down by the cheap stuff, then you might be ready to take advantage of more refined tech.

    I'd probably pay up to $2000 for the Samsung. But it had better be battle-tank tough and reliable and not have any real bugs or annoyances.

    And honestly, I think the only way to guarantee that level of quality is to buy used from eBay. -Where the product descriptions are actually effing honest: ("Works great, the battery is old and doesn't hold a charge and it has a crack in the keyboard and three dead pixels"), rather than having to discover random glitches on your own after paying the "New!" price. You can decide if those are bugs you can live with or not.

    My Dell was bought on eBay, but it wasn't used. It was a new, unopened item, so I broke my own rule. And, of course, it had a random glitch which, had I known about, I simply wouldn't have bought. -But given the price, and the six months of use I got out of it, I don't feel especially burned by.

    But my takeaway is that "Used is better than New". (Where the original owner did all the suffering so you don't have to). -Unless you are dealing with a company with a respectable service department and you don't mind playing the $2000 lottery where you have a 30% chance of losing.

    However, if that Samsung were available from a bricks and mortar store with a decent return policy, like "Staples", then I might consider spending big on it. Staples has a no-questions return policy on this stuff, which is the only way I'd drop that kind of cash.

    We'll have to wait and see if they bother carrying it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
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  3. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Wow! That's extremely generous. I'm sure you'll be able to find an eBay seller for that amount.

    But I've got to ask, in the event you do have to return the product, how is the return process?

    I imagine the seller will probably be from the States, so you'll have to risk paying non-refundable import duty at the border, and also pay the hefty international shipping costs, in case of a return.

    Don't you also have to factor in these risks/costs when you buy from eBay?
     
  4. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    The nice thing about eBay is that you don't usually have to spend more than $500 to get $2000 worth of something if you can stand waiting a year or two, check the listings frequently for exceptional deals, and a less than pristine finish doesn't phase you.

    $2000 would be for the Box Store With A No Questions return policy a few weeks after a new model starts shipping.

    Returns on eBay are arranged seller-by-seller, and at the best of times are hardly ideal. I had to do it once on my very first Toshiba years ago, and it was a pain. But "All Sales Final" often means you're digging through the $100 bin for much more valuable treasure, so I'm generally good without product insurance of any kind. I'll only raise a fuss if the item description was clearly deceptive or the thing arrives DOA. I've rarely experienced that. I've bought tons of stuff on eBay over the years with only a couple of sour notes. Sellers value their reputations. -Interestingly, the sellers with tens of thousands of sales are worth being careful with, since a bad rating from you will barely dent their overall average. -One seller was basically giving away free small items just to boost positive reviews. People do game eBay, (of course), but after a while, you get to know the landscape well enough to avoid pitfalls.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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  5. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Ah ok, so it's only this special case (15" EMR) that you're breaking your rule and buying new/retail at $2000. Otherwise, you'd wait until the factors align on eBay for a good purchase.

    Honestly, I'm not sure if I could wait 2 years...maybe 1 year max. Otherwise, my mind is already on the next greatest tablet. (And let me ya, daily visits to these forums doesn't help any! ;))

    Another thing I hate about eBay is the bidding war at the last 10 seconds. If you find a good deal, you can bet at least 10 other eBay hawks are watching that same auction.

    Then you have to do the calculation for their anticipated maximums, and then second guess your own limit too:

    Hmm...well would it kill me to bid an extra $10?...an extra $15?...etc. until you fast approach the price of a brand new unit!

    So what I usually do is just place single max bid calculated from MSRP discounted by shipping and estimated 'auction risk factor' (which usually ends up bring ~50% of MSRP).

    But of course, there will always be that one person that bids 1 penny more than you at the end...causing you to lose the auction and all the time you spent hunting it down, questioning the seller, and comparing to other auctions...argh!

    For me, it just seems like such an arduous process for such a shaky end result (even if you win, you still risk dealing with customs, going through extra careful testing within the dispute time limit, and negotiating returns if necessary).

    Any tips as an eBay veteran? Am I missing something in my time/benefit analysis?
     
  6. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I tend to avoid bidding on items altogether and just go for the "Buy Now" options. -You tend to get people running small business operations that way, and a higher chance of reliable service and knowledge about how to ship things properly. -But you do tend to pay a little more than if you win a regular auction.

    With auctions, you never know what kind of person you're going to be dealing with. Sometimes they're absolutely great. But other times...

    I remember I took a chance one time on a newbie and ended up having to hand-hold what seemed like a nervous teen through the shipping process. I could not convince him to seek the most economical mailing option on the USPS website because he was so trained in authority obedience that he couldn't bear to disregard the web designer's psychological ploys to send people to the most expensive shipping choices.

    I should have, in retrospect, made screen caps of the correct buttons to press, but in the end he pretty much melted down and I got fed up and just let him choose the big expensive option on the main page, needlessly wasting an extra $50 on my behalf.

    Mostly, though, I've had good experiences. I only really remember the ridiculous ones.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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  7. Kumabjorn

    Kumabjorn ***** is back Senior Member

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    They are the ones that stick with you. Buying something on eBay is a little like swiping right on Tinder. High hopes crushed by poor execution.
     
  8. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Hmm, you must have better luck than me...

    In my experience, Buy It Now auctions tend to be ~70% MSRP after shipping, especially for well-specced, still-relevant 1-2 year old products.

    The only time I've actually gotten a steal is on out-and-out "broken" devices, which I wager that I could fix myself. I did this for an EP121 which I got for ~$130 CAD. But then again that was for a 4-year-old device...

    How long do you usually have to watch the eBay listings before getting a really good Buy It Now option? Maybe I'll give "eBay for main device" strategy another shot... ;)

    (Oh and a note: I've had a much better time buying used on Kijiji. The only problem is in Edmonton, you don't have as many listings as Toronto or Vancouver, but I find in-person transactions give you so much more confidence in your purchase and honesty of the seller.)
     
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  9. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Current devices are typically going to be only marginally less expensive than buying retail, if at all. -And that's just because actual retail outlets are just using eBay as another sales avenue to customers.

    Bearing in mind, I'm generally looking at much older hardware. Here's an example:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/132196668995?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    That would be part of a corporate off-lease collection, probably.

    Why even bother bidding? And look at the seller reputation. You're not going to get burned on a purchase like that.

    When buying new or recent hardware, the used gear is less available, and often from individuals turning their purchases around. You have to be much more discerning and lucky to get something just fallen off the cutting edge. eBay is most reliable for old stuff.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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  10. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Well I have to say, if I was a starving Arts major, I'd be kissing you right now. :p

    But my weakness is I'm very much a "concept device" person. I get drawn to tablet technology "leaps", like first quadcore tablet (Z Canvas) or first OLED+3:2 EMR (GB12).

    As I wrote here, there is a certain gestalt--a magic--when a tablet reaches a certain combination of hardware capabilities.

    And it is sensitive to time frame.

    I wouldn't feel the same level of tablet satisfaction using an EP121 right now, but back in 2011, it gave me a much deeper understanding of the 2-in-1 form factor, that allowed me to appreciate the later advancements of the Surface Pro line.

    So yes, you do get the best deals years later, and theoretically the hardware is "just as good", but you lose that in-the-moment technology perspective...it's like how we'll never understand the magic of using the first PCs.

    You had to be there.

    ...that's what you're paying for. ;)
     
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