Samsung Galaxy Book discussion thread

Discussion in 'Samsung' started by JoeS, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. kvoram

    kvoram Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, for software usage, IOPS matters more than those maximum speeds, so those eMMC numbers look even more dire compared to even a slow SSD.
    Price value looks worse the more I look at it...
     
  2. jhoff80

    jhoff80 Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Seriously, it shouldn't be this hard for the manufacturers. Take a Cube Mix Plus, put it in a nicer shell with kickstand, and give it a precision touchpad. (And also get rid of the extra 12v jack and microUSB 3.0 port, and add in a second USB-C maybe even). Obviously I'm oversimplifying but come on... The Galaxy Book 10 looks great at first sight, but eMMC, no stand at all (a folding keyboard stand does not count at all), and the rumored price... it just keeps sounding worse and worse the more I read.
     
  3. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 AKA Hifihedgehog Senior Member

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    Versus a premium top-of-the-line PCIe SSD, eMMC 5.1 flash memory will, of course, have an noticeable increase in latency and a drop in random access reads and writes. But the performance drop is not as far as you might think with eMMC 5.1 versus eMMC 4.51, which had just 7000/2000 read/write IOPs. eMMC 5.1 offers 7 times the write IOPs and nearly double the read IOPs of 4.51. For any Surface 3 owner, this would be a remarkably huge boost in performance. In addition, here is where a Surface Pro 4 m3 falls in IOPS performance with its internal low-end SSD. Its SSD is only in the 14,000/5,000 range for random read/write IOPS:

    RANDOM READ TEST (4K, QUEUE LENGTH: 4, THREADS: 4)
    diskspd.exe -c16G -d60 -L -w0 -t4 -o4 -b4K -r -L testfile.dat
    Drive Average Latency IOPS MB/s Avg CPU
    Internal 1.107 14,422 56 63%

    SEQUENTIAL READ TEST (4K, QUEUE LENGTH: 4, THREADS: 1)
    diskspd.exe -c16G -d60 -L -w0 -t1 -o4 -b4K -L testfile.dat
    Drive Average Latency IOPS MB/s Avg CPU
    Internal 0.122 32,702 127 36%

    SEQUENTIAL READ TEST (4K, QUEUE LENGTH: 8, THREADS: 1)
    diskspd.exe -c16G -d60 -L -w0 -t1 -o8 -b4K -L testfile.dat
    Drive Average Latency IOPS MB/s Avg CPU
    Internal 0.827 9,658 37 40%

    WRITE PERFORMANCE (VIA DISKSPD)

    RANDOM WRITE TEST (4K, QUEUE LENGTH: 4, THREADS: 4)
    diskspd.exe -c16G -d60 -L -w100 -t4 -o4 -b4K -r -L testfile.dat
    Drive Average Latency IOPS MB/s Avg CPU
    Internal 3.092 5,170 20 31%

    SEQUENTIAL WRITE TEST (4K, QUEUE LENGTH: 4, THREADS: 1)
    diskspd.exe -c16G -d60 -L -w100 -t1 -o4 -b4K -L testfile.dat
    Drive Average Latency IOPS MB/s Avg CPU
    Internal 0.105 38,156 149 11%
    Source: http://www.iannoble.co.uk/benchmark...ssd-vs-surface-pro-4-m3-internal-128gb-drive/

    Verdict? eMMC 5.1 is more than enough for most people, noticeably faster than the eMMC 4.51 flash in any Atom tablet ever released and nearly on par with low-end SSDs like the one found in the Surface Pro 4 m3 in random accesses. eMMC bus speed limits for sustained transfer speeds will be the far greater limitation here. Instead of greater than 500 MB/s sustained read and write speeds, we are capped at 250 MB/s read, 125 MB/s write.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
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  4. kvoram

    kvoram Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    @sonichedgehog360 eMMC 5.1 may be "good enough" for someone going for a Core m3 CPU or coming from an Atom device, but as you wrote we still don't know if they are even using it. Interestingly, given the high CPU load on those benchmarks, it seems that the Atom in the S3 might be a serious bottleneck as well when it comes to drive speeds.

    Anyway, I guess we will have to wait until someone at MWC actually runs a benchmark on the GB. But overall, I would have expected more from Samsung.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
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  5. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    (sneaky cross-thread quote)
    Agreed, the larger one is definitely pretty great. I personally prefer Microsoft's kickstand approach though. I hope Samsung will also offer a super lightweight keyless 'smart cover' like on the old iPad Air.

    I was also hoping that they would be able to make it even lighter while maintaining a decent battery life. The 12" is 1.66 lbs, a little lighter than the 1.73 lbs of the Surface Pro 4, but nothing amazing. AMOLED would be awesome to have though.
     
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  6. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 AKA Hifihedgehog Senior Member

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    I agree, actually. I am just stating for the benefit of anyone who has been wanting a 10-inch Core M tablet with reasonable warranty coverage and Wacom EMR pen technology that the eMMC could be not a hindrance if it turns out to be eMMC 5.1 (which I believe will likely be the case since Samsung is a major manufacturer of flash memory, including eMMC 5.1). It is obvious Samsung is really trying to cut corners and I will gladly avoid this product line for the time being this generation. So, if the price is over $500 for their entry-level 10.6-inch model, I will highly recommending to others to avoid this. I will suggest instead they either (1) buy last-generation Core M (Miix 700 and Huawei Matebook go for $400 to $500 new now), (2) buy the Cube Mix Plus, or (3; where I fall) "wait and hope" for Samsung to release a vastly improved second generation iteration. Hopefully, Samsung is simply experiencing growing pains that comes with product design and development and can learn quickly from their first two serious Core-based Windows tablets just as Microsoft did with their first few generations of the Surface Pro.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  7. Bronsky

    Bronsky Wait and Hope. Senior Member

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    Well ... isn't this interesting There is a lot to like about the 10.6". The eMMC drive and TFT display will require some more study to see if they are deal killers. I am actually pleased with the resolution, since I won't have to change my current external display. All I will need is a dock and the unit. I say price in the $549 range. While the 10" Sammy is no replacement for the Surface Pro, it has a lot to like for S3 owners looking for the next step.
     
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  8. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 AKA Hifihedgehog Senior Member

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    Let's wait and hope they didn't go so cheap as to not use eMMC 5.1 which a Core processor could interface with. For better and for worse, the screen is the same exact resolution as your Surface 3, meaning a nearly identical DPI (Surface 3 has a barely larger 10.8" screen). On the upside, this should mean its battery life is longer than most with less pixels to push. We will have to see if the contrast, color accuracy, and brightness are worth their salt, though.
     
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  9. artistebot

    artistebot Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Totally agree.

    I still love my SP2 with the Wacom Pen, now I can finally retire it. Whoo hoo!

    Samsung is FINALLY talking about the sPen art features such as angle/tilt support. Both Microsoft and Apple have done a fat better job than Samsung in regards to how their tools relate to art usage. Tilt has been available since the Note 4.
     
  10. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 AKA Hifihedgehog Senior Member

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    For those who did not catch this yet, the S-Pen also brings tilt support to the table. Although, by the sounds of it, they might be restricting tilt sensor readings to their own API and might not be sending this data on to the Windows Ink API:

    Unusually, though, the Galaxy Book recognizes pen tilt: Samsung has cooked up special support for that, initially only in Adobe Photoshop, where Wacom used to save it all for its own Intuos graphics tablets and the like. Samsung tells me it’s open to working with other software companies to broaden tilt support, though right now there’s no plans for an open API.
    Source: https://www.slashgear.com/samsung-galaxy-book-hands-on-s-pen-and-win-10-to-scare-ipad-pro-26476207/

    Edit: artistebot and I must have been on the same wavelength since he posted just a few minutes prior, and I just saw it.
     
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