Problem with Asus T103HAF, intermittent writing with Asus pen

Discussion in 'Asus' started by Luca92, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. Luca92

    Luca92 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hello, I have Asus Transformers Mini T103 HAF that is equipped with active digitizer with pen, with N-trig technology. The writing is continuous if the hand does not touch the screen or if a handkerchief or anything insulating prevents direct contact between the hand and the screen, while it is intermittent if the hand touches the screen. In particular, the writing is intermittent if the hand touches the screen before the pen, while it is continuous if the pen touches the screen before the hand.





    Of course, touch the screen every time first with the tip of the pen and then with the hand is uncomfortable and not natural and then leads to the problem of intermittent writing. All Windows updates, Bios updates, Asus updates, Active “ignore touch input when I use the pen” have been made, calibration has been done and many other attempts. I verified that the problem is not in the contact between my hand and the pen, but between my hand and the tablet (the screen). So by placing a conductive thing on the screen like my hand, this problem occurs. The videos on this Youtube channel that describe this problem are a total of 4.



    I also changed the pen, but the problem is not in the pen (the old pen is on the left of the PC).
    Thanks, bye,

    Luca
     
  2. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    This is likely a problem of short hover distance. Notice when you bring the pen close to the device without touching the display, a cursor appear? If your palm touch the display after it detect pen and show the pen cursor, palm rejection would activate and won't trigger touch. Generally the shorter the hover distance, the slower the screen detect pen and the easier it is to accidently trigger touch. Try putting your pen near the display to see the furthest distance from the display that the cursor can show up. Has it always been like that or just recently? Is it after a Windows update or just happen all of the sudden?

    Some bad digitizer only recognize pen input upon touching the display (aka no hover distance), that look a lot like how your pen performed. If that is the case then the only thing you can do is wearing a drawing glove. If it has not always been like that and still have warranty then try bring it to repair.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  3. Luca92

    Luca92 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hello, first of all thanks for the reply. As you can see from this video:
    even without touching the screen the pen is detected and the touchscreen is deactivated, when I move the pen away the touch screen works normally. Does this mean that the palm rejection is present right? Or do you need anything else to say that the palm rejection is present? I had bought this device because it had the n-Trig digitizer the same as the Microsoft Surface and so since it's the same company and the same component in my opinion the palm rejection is present, only it doesn't work well. What do you think about it?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  4. drzeus

    drzeus Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hi Luca! Did you have this problem from day 1 of owning or has it appeared recently?
    I had a similar problem after using my UX370 (bought June 2018) complete with Asus pen for a whole 18 months without problem. I have literally written miles with my pen. I love it. I've been writing with Wacom pens since 2003 until I got this. All my text editing is by pen.
    I had checked the same box (Ignore touch whilst using pen) and also unchecked the box for 'Write in handwriting panel with your fingertip".
    I had a similar problem in that as well as writing where the pen tip was, I was getting randoms marks anywhere my hand touched. It had never done that before.
    I thought the problem was the Win10 1909 update so I uninstalled it and the pen seemed more normal but not quite 100%. The next day my pen would not work at all. It turns out that the battery was dead. The battery expiry date was in 2017, before I even bought my pc!
    Anyway, new battery and the pen was back to being almost 100% again. So I reinstalled 1909 and instead unistalled the KB that had been installed along with the first install of 1909, and disabled updates.
    Since then my pen has been pretty well back to normal. I have now re-enabled updates and am up to date for my pc and without problems generally with the pen. But in recording a video I have noticed that if I rest my palm on the screen and write immediately, all is good. If I rest my palm and delay in writing, then the pc picks up focus on my hand first and I have to lift my hand to get it to refocus on the pen. So they have definitely screwed with palm rejection somewhere. Typical Microsoft, fix what wasn't broken so that someone gets a better looking smiley or some other crap.
    There is a BIG problem with palm rejection with Surface Pro users (like your problem. Do a search on microsoft's own forum to see that).

    So if yours was all working OK at some point, check your battery in the pen and check your Win10 updates.
    At the moment, mine is working acceptably, and in fact works better when the "Ignore touch input when I'm using my pen" is UNCHECKED (no stray marks from palm!) I hope they restore it to how it was.
    If it never ever worked properly, something is up either with your pen or the Transformer. You could try the pen on a Surface Pro 3 in a nearby shop to check it.

    I can cope with odd bits of ink because I only write/annotate but it must be terrible if you want to draw.
    I have noticed that keeping only the part of the resting hand curved not with little finger out also stops stray marks; any finger extension is perceived as input, especially when "Ignore..." is checked!! Crazy!
     
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  5. Luca92

    Luca92 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hello and thanks for the reply. I can't tell you since exactly when I had this problem, but I bought the PC in late July 2018 and shortly afterwards I started to notice the problem. This problem is still present even though I have sent the PC 2 times to assistance and changed the pen. I also tried with the ignore touch input option, but as you can see from this link ( https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/component-guidelines/windows-pen-states ), in the palm rejection section of the page, even if the tick is not active, palm rejection is still activated under the hand. So when that check is active instead of just ignoring the touches in the part where the hand is near the pen, it ignores them on the whole screen, but to me therefore it does not solve the problem.I also changed the battery with both the Duracell and the rechargeable batteries that I use now. So the battery is ok. However I had read that the Surface had a similar problem.

    My problem is that practically when I write with the pen without placing my hand on the screen the writing is continuous, while if I put my hand on the screen the writing is intermittent. In particular, I noticed that if I place the pen first and only after the hand and the pen does not move away from the screen (the pen in the sensing distance) then the writing will be continuous, while if I put my hand first and then the pen or if while I writing with the hand resting I move the pen beyond the sensing distance then the writing will be intermittent. If I use a tissue under my hand, it is as if I do not touch the screen and therefore the writing is continuous.

    I don't know if it's a hardware or software problem. I have seen that also other people on the various forums on which I have written have the same problem always with Asus pc. I don't know if it is Microsoft's fault that has not released updates, if it is Asus' fault that it has not released updates or the hardware is defective or if it is the fault of ELAN Microeletronics which is the company that supplies the pen and touchscreen components.

    I changed the pen to another Asus Pen (in fact in one of the videos you can see the old pen on the left side) and I have the same problem. I have tried my pen on the Surface and it works well, while trying the Surface Pen on my device there is the same problem. So the pen shouldn't be the problem. The pen battery is charged. I tried to write on many apps (Onenote, Microsoft Whiteboard and other non-Microsoft apps) and I always have the same problem. I have made all the updates of both Asus and Microsoft.

    Asus told me that my device does not have palm rejection, but this is not true. In my opinion, palm rejection is there, only that it works badly. In my opinion as you can see from this video that I made palm rejection is present ( )
    I can't take notes at university, it's disgusting, I will never buy anything from Asus again and I hope others will do it too.

    If you see this review is absurd, in their pc Asus Zenbook pro Duo (the top of Asus pc) which costs 3000 €,this pc has just come out and it seems to be no palm rejection https://www.absolutegeeks.com/article/reviews/laptops-reviews/asus-zenbook-pro-duo-review/
    That is, a joke, on a 3000 € pc in which the pen is included and which also has a dual screen for taking notes and making graphics, I can't put my hand on the screen??? Asus is joking, it's disgusting. So our problem is still a problem in 2020, it has not been solved, if this review tells the truth.

    One person commented on the my video on Youtube and told me that with an Amazon cheap pen he solved the problem, but he doesn't answer me anymore. I am trying to do everything to solve but for now nothing.

    I thank you, greetings
    Luca.
     
  6. drzeus

    drzeus Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hi Luca
    Sorry for late reply.
    Yes it is so frustrating! And it's definitely to do with palm rejection. I noticed exactly the same behaviour as you described in your reply to me. It seems to have to do with the time for the touch input to get the system's focus, whether it sees there is a pen first, or palm first. I still have that problem too but it seems to be appear so randomly. (Do you have a screen protector on?)
    This is my 3rd such device (also have Windows 8 Ativ and Note 10.1) But this is the only one ever to have this problem.
    I have also noted a significant change in the behaviour of the pen as a mouse. Whereas I used to select a word then right click and drag it where I wanted no problem, now 50% of the time it drags the page instead Driving me totally nuts. Also a focus problem I think.
    For me it is absolutely something MS have done because it was all working 100% properly. They have broken something, yet again.

    I also want to try the cheap amazon pen because I am actually allergic to the metal every other damn pen seems to be made of! I have mine covered in washi tape at the moment

    It must be a nightmare for Asus to get things fixed that MS has broken. The fault for mine at least is MS.

    Have you tried a graphics glove? Or any glove would work really. There are some cool cycling gloves about. Pimp up your style! It would be a solution until we can figure out wtf is wrong. And better than a tissue.

    Surface users are totally hopping mad too. There are various HP and Lenovo 2 in 1 users who also have problems each time MS make a change.

    I've just remembered my niece doing postgrad in US is a hardware IT boff and nephew is software I will ask them what they think.

    I had to give up on the Ativ because Win 10 is not compatible on it. Stupid MS.

    Yours frustratedly
    DZ
     
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  7. drzeus

    drzeus Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Weirdly, the only places I have the problem are Word, Excel (which also allow me to write with my finger even though not supposed to!) and Acrobat DC. In Powerpoint, OneNote, Sticky Notes and Sketchbook it all works fine, finger doesn't work unless you select use touch (hand) icon, no splotches or wiggles.
    Flipping crazy.

    Do you have the problem across all programs?
     
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  8. drzeus

    drzeus Pen Pal - Newbie

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    ***What program are you using to take notes?
     
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  9. Luca92

    Luca92 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hi, sorry too for my late reply.

    It depends on the refusal of the palm, but I contacted Asus both the Taiwan office and the Italian office and they told me a ********, that my device does not have palm rejection. I have no screen protector, but I have read that some on Amazon with the glass screen protector (not the thin film, in short, not the plastic one) say that the pen works best from the point of detection. I had this problem almost immediately, as soon as I understood the problem. In addition to having sent him twice to assistance.

    I always have the problem and on all the programs I've tried. I use Onenote and I have the problem but it happens with everyone, it just depends on who first touches the screen between hand and pen.

    I don't think it depends so much on Microsoft, in the sense that I have also read about the problems that Microsoft Surface had in the past, but they have solved them, now I read that they work well and also other brands do not seem to me to have this problem (in the past yes but now from what I know it's all solved). Asus devices, at least mine, as well as Surface from what I understand use technology from a Chinese company (ELAN) for the digitizer touchscreen and pen. I think it's a problem of drivers not released either by Asus, or by ELAN, perhaps by Microsoft but I don't think of Microsoft though it may be otherwise all the PCs of the other brands with Windows would have this problem, instead it seems that all Asus and only these have this problem. I also tried to contact ELAN as I read that for the HP it had released updates.

    Also because as I say in the previous message it is absurd that a 3000 € PC does not have palm rejection, also because the palm rejection is a simple thing in the end, it only needs to disable the touchscreen when the pen is close, in fact even cheap devices have it .

    I also tried the Microsoft Surface pen but I didn't solve it. Also I am sure that palm rejection is present only that it does not work well.

    I tried the glove but it is very uncomfortable, especially in the summer, it is also a little embarrassing anyway (obviously also the handkerchief :) ). I am surprised that in any case we are relatively few to protest this problem if all Asus have this problem, if we were many they should find a solution (I have other conversation about it on other blog with people with the same problem). So here's Asus' answer was that there is no palm rejection (********).

    You can try if you want, to see this link https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/component-guidelines/windows-pen-states and see the last paragraph at the bottom of the page "Delayed Zooming on Inking Surfaces ”and if you want to change this DelayManipulationDuration value from the default value 250 which seems to be related to the problem. I haven't solved it.

    Thank you, if you know something let me know, I will obviously do the same.

    Luca
     
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