Photoshop toolbar

Discussion in 'Artists' started by lblb, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Actually, I was thinking now more along the lines of a little form which comes up as another GUI when you hit a button, which shows a full layout of the bar with little spots where you can enter your preferred key strokes and other information. The same principle as in other programs which allow you to define your own keyboard commands.

    The AutoHotKey command Gui_submit can take this user data, convert it to the variables needed, and will even let you save the data. (There are bits of sample code on that linked page which show how it's all done.)

    Mind you, it looks like a biggish job, but it's clearly possible. It could be strapped right on top of the existing bar script.

    What do you think lblb? Worth taking a crack at?


    EDIT: I just took a quick look, thinking somebody must have already built something like this, and I came across an all-purpose GUI maker for AHK, called, "Smart GUI Creator"

    http://www.autohotkey.com/forum/topic775.html

    It's got a bit of a learning curve though; by no means intuitive. Still, it offers drag and dropping of buttons and such. I played around with it and found several neat features, but I'd have to read the manual to work out how to get it to do what we'd need.

    Either way, everything is possible here.
     
  2. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Ah, yes, that GUI does sound very cool. I'll admit that I simply don't have the time right now to learn something like that. I'm happy to be a tester and provide input on how things function and what might be the most useful setups though.

    Frankly, even that's taking up more time than it should for me, but it's a lot of fun, and I could see how this would be very very useful in the end. You guys are awesome.

    BTW, the mockup I drew up is now attached to my previous post on page 6. So you can sort of see what I was talking about there.
     
  3. lblb

    lblb Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    thatcomicsguy,

    1) I was busy trying to figure out all the ArtRage stuff so I hadn’t had a chance before yesterday to look at the most recent version of your toolbar. Man, you did a fantastic job cleaning up and ordering the code!
    2) To make sense of all the different buttons, in the new file I uploaded yesterday I’ve started to change the labels. For example, now the PS buttons are named something like PSxy, where x and y are the row and column, respectively. Also, the states are now statexyz, where z is the state’s ever increasing number. I still may try to make it better but for now this has helped me a lot keeping track of it all. (And also, I’m not completely done changing the labels... it was getting late yesterday and I was fed up of looking at txt files!)
    3) What you thought of for a customization interface sounds like it could be great! Now the implementation may be more difficult... For now with toolbars of version 1.x, I would say that priority 1 is ironing out the basic stuff. Then I think priority 2 for toolbars 2.x would be to have them toggle automatically when the active program changes. And then for 3.x, it would be to come up with a way to make them easily customizable. The main reason for this order is the learning curve!
    I’ll think more about what you suggested (you really do have some great ideas!), but probably won’t have time to really try anything soon.
    The main difficulty I see is that the way it’s set up now, when you add a button, the button’s got to be hidden/shown at all kinds of places in the code. So coming up with a program that will do this reliably seems challenging for me for now. Although getting a systematic numbering system (kind of what I describe in 2) above) may go a long way in changing this.
    4) From all the fooling around that I did in the last few days, I think that an eventually better solution (for both customization and automatic toggling) could be to have different panels (i.e. different child gui’s) inside a parent gui. That’s doable but is still a bit out of my reach right now. Using something like that, going from one toolbar to the other would just involve switching between different child giu’s, instead of toggling individually each button through different states like the code is doing right now (and which really makes the code quite complex).
    5) I did look at Smart Gui Creator when I was starting to learn all this. It’s fantastic to shape up the general layout and has many great functions. However, from what I’ve seen, it just positions the different elements on the gui, i.e. you still have to open the ahk file and adjust the coding and actions of each button. But I’ll have to play with it a more.
    6) Something else I was thinking of trying: there is a toolbar out there called FunkyBar that has many of the features we want. I may just send an e-mail to the developer to see if he is willing to share the code. Although I’m guessing that it’s probably not a AHK script. And I know absolutely nothing about programming outside of AHK...
    7) I don’t know if you caught it among all the posts that we exchanged about the ArtRage stuff, but I came up with a way for buttons to keep sending commands as long as the button is pressed. I haven’t played with it too much yet but it works great. For example, by using a delay of about 70 ms between commands, it makes the zoom in/out buttons in Photoshop act like pretty cool automatic zoom buttons. See post #47.
    8) Also, it’s less interesting but it may be useful in terms of saving a little space: in post #55, I’ve come up with a way for buttons to send different commands depending on if you left- or right-click them. The coding is a bit unusual, but we can always discuss if you want to explore that more.

    Steve,

    1) I think the hide arrows problems that you had with the ArtRage toolbar are solved in the version of thatcomicsguy toolbar I uploaded yesterday (he solved that bug, not me.) So it shouldn’t be a problem to extend that to all other toolbars (and it's pretty easy to see in the coding what caused your problems).
    2) If that's something desirable, I think it would be easy to have the program become the activated window when you choose a program in the toolbar menu button.
    3) Thanks for the image and all the other info. Shouldn’t be too difficult to address the lasso problem. Keep sending ideas this way! It sure helps me learn about AHK!

    Now if I could just find some time to explore all these cool ideas!
     
  4. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Oh, I agree- thatcomicguys toolbar has some nice features in Sai. I saved it on my desktop, because it's the only version of our set that currently really works in Sai. It's missing a number of features that you and had have been working on in Artrage though. It would be nice to pull the two together (said the guy not actually writing the script).

    I really like your menu idea, and the repeat button push ability (which will be great for Zoom as well as Resize in Sai). I also think we've been ironing out a lot of details about how the specific buttons work- the 70 ms delay between repeat button pushes, as well as the appropriate toggle on/off ability depending on the key. That sort of stuff.

    I agree that once we've really set the AHK script to work really smoothly in Artrage, I would imagine a lot of that could just get ported over to Sai/Firefox, etc. with some minor tweaks because of the way the programs work.

    One thing that we never did get ironed out in Sai (I think) is that if you decided to press F11 and go full screen, it was hiding the AHK toolbar. Of course, I could just not go Full Screen, but that's really a nice detail on a small 12" screen.

    Thatcomicsguy, did you iron that issue out?? I don't remember.

    Anyways, I probably should focus on Artrage for now. Well, lunch if over. Gotta head out.
     
  5. lblb

    lblb Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Steve, when I have time next, I'll try to put together a Sai/ArtRage toolbar so that you can use it and really test the dual toolbar concept and test out all the functions that we figured out previously. I'll probably leave out the secondary layer/controls panels for now, but when I have time it shouldn't be too complex to add them.
    This is indeed taking more time than I initially thought, but I'm not complaining: I'm having a lot of fun and my AHK knowledge is light years away from what it was before starting this!
     
  6. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Cool. Glad to hear its fun. That's the part that worried me-- who'd want this to feel like work? Blegh.
     
  7. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    @Steve B:

    I took a look at the tool bar sketch you offered. It covers a lot of ground.

    One thing I don't understand is what it offers, (in Artrage) over the native tool system. It seems to duplicate functions and features which are already optimized for stylus input.

    For Photoshop, there's no on-screen undo button, neither is there a way to access certain commands without two hands, which makes an on-screen toolbar useful for me. Also, I like to be able to get rid of all those screen-hungry pallets. SAI is similar in its awkward, canvas-wasting layout, so again a low-profile toolbar is useful. (My personal version is even a couple buttons smaller than the one I posted.)

    I don't use Artrage, but from what I've seen, it has a really well-engineered user interface. But then, maybe I'm missing something. So I'm just wondering if it's really that bad that it needs outside help from a DIY toolbar?

    Just curious. :)
     
  8. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    It's a reasonable question. Of the three programs, Artrage easily has the most tablet friendly GUI. Bar none. I really came into this process most concerned about getting around in Sai better. Even so, Artrage has it's issues.

    I've attached a jpeg of a screen shot while using Artrage, with various menus open. I don't normally work like that, but it can occassionally get crowded. OR, you spend a reasonable amount of time opening and closing them, moving your hand across the screen, etc. The tool selection and resizing process IS very easy with Artrage, but getting into Layers, making selections, etc and changing the stuff I've mentioned as wanting in a Layers Button Array in AHK is actually something of a pain, IMO. The issue? The GUI is really pen friendly, but not really user modifiable. Comparatively, Painter is a joke it's so messy, but it's also very customizable, with the ability to make buttons that do shortcuts to menu items, etc. That's very nice. Not so in Artrage.

    The idea behind the slighty expanded version of the AHK setup was to think up a way where I could easily access 90% of what I'd want without ever having to exit Full Screen mode. To me, that's worth giving up an inch on the right side of the screen. Being right handed, it's also more ergonomic to have everything to the upper and middle right, where I can easily and quickly tap things while working. Artrage, for example, has the tool picker and resizer in the bottom left, which isn't very helpful at all. You can "tear it off" the corner, rotate it, and put it in the upper right, but then a lot of stuff is sort of "upside down".

    The other thing is that Artrage binds a lot of stuff to modifier keys + pen dragging. This is very cool with a keyboard, but otherwise useless to me.

    SO, the usefulness of things like having a button for a contextual Color Picker that opens at the tip of my pen, the Resize + Drag option, the Zoom + Drag option, the straight line option, the Rotate with Drag option, etc. These are nice to have as a simple button without needing the big compass out. I actually like the big compass thingy, but it goes away in Full Screen, which is a shame. Artrage isn't really designed to take advantage of that. I wanted the buttons for the Layers stuff because I've been having to go into the menus every time I've wanted to Select Layer contents, then to Invert the Selection, etc. Ugh. Once I'd gotten that far, I figured it'd be nice just to have a few buttons for the tools I most often use, so I could paint with a 1-button pen (without Stroke It) and still able to switch tools on the fly, resize my eraser, etc. etc.

    The truth is that if I was only doing black and white line work, I wouldn't need anything more than the "main" ahk panel. But if I'm doing color work, the layer seletions, textures and stencils, and the blenders/brushes, etc. become much more important. Thus the desire to try and make AHK quickly and easily modifiable with the secondary Tool and Layer AHK Panels that one could "roll out" or hide, depending on if one-- a) had a 2-button pen, b) was doing black and white line work only, or c) was doing color work.

    Phew. I think that's the gist though. The loss of about a 1" wide area of space with the extra buttons just seemed worth the benefits of quick, customizable, and ergonomic movement between all the commands and tools I most commonly use. I don't think it'll be as essential as something like this is in Sai, but I think it'll help make things smoother.
     

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  9. lblb

    lblb Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    So what have we learned today? Here goes:

    1) Doing some AHK programming after a wine-happy dinner with friends is not very productive. It's funny, but not very productive.
    2) And apparently it may even cause the death of once-popular singing divas.
    3) The speed of the toolbar is barely affected by having more and more layouts. Which is good. However the loading time becomes much longer: with five different layouts in the Menu options, it takes about 10 seconds for the toolbar to appear once the ahk file is launched. But I guess this is kind of ok: I guess the idea with the toolbar is to start it once, then keep it around in the minimized state when not in use. I'm already thinking of ways to go around this limitation, but that will have to wait a bit.

    I've been working on a toolbar with five programs (for now they are Sai, PS, Art Rage, Sketchbook Pro and Firefox, but that can easily be modified). Even though I said earlier that I would work on a Sai/Art Rage dual toolbar, it's actually much more efficient for me to start with many layouts, then eliminate the unwanted ones later on. A few questions for Steve:

    - What state do you want the toolbar to start in? Art Rage?
    - I was looking at your mockup drawing. Would it be better to swap the Menu and Roll up/down buttons? This way, when you minimize it only the top row would be visible.
    - Would it be easier to use the toolbar if the Layers and Tools buttons had L and T on the buttons instead of arrows?
    - In what order do you want the programs to appear in the Menu?
    - Leaving the Layers and Tools subpanels out for now, can you tell me what buttons you would like on these very preliminary versions of the Sai and Sketchbook Pro toolbars?
    - Would you be willing (you can say no, I would certainly not be offended!) to create images for the buttons on the Layers subpanel? I don't really have any idea what the images should look like! Or maybe just text on the buttons (which I could easily do)?
    - In your mockup for Art Rage, the "straight line" button is equivalent to holding down Ctrl, right? In this case, would it be better for this button to be a simple Ctrl toggle button? If it's timed (or something like that) it would probably only be good for one line, and then you'd have to go and hit the button again for every straight line you want to draw. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that in most cases you won't just want to draw only one straight line... Can you think of a better system than a Ctrl toggle?
    - For Art Rage, since so many functions are associated with right-click, would it be better to have two different layouts for the two pens you have? For other programs also?
    - For Art Rage, where do you find the Hide Layers function (the one that has not hotkey associated with)? There are some ways in AutoHotkey to actually dig through menus and select items even if they don't have hotkeys. I'm not promising anything (and don't know yet how to do that!) but I could try a few things.
     
  10. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    @Steve B:

    So it sounds like what you're saying is that once you get used to Artrage, the shortcomings in its GUI begin to make themselves (annoyingly) apparent.

    Do they even bother to ask artists what they need or do they just run on guess-work over at the big software houses, I wonder?

    Sheesh.

    It also sounds like the best thing for any program is lots and lots of user-programmable features. Windows, as an OS, would do well to incorporate a very user-friendly version of something similar to AHK in its basic function; let users make their own GUI systems with drag&drop ease, applicable to any program.

    Whatever. There's probably a reason that won't happen. And probably it's the sort of reason Steve Jobs would have been best able to explain, (with the benefit of some hefty reality-distortion, natch.)

    Thank-goodness for DIY people.
     
  11. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Yeah, re: Artrage-- its a shame in some way, because I love how pen friendly it is. They've really thought that element out. Its the same with Sketchbook Pro, which is also amazingly pen friendly. Why, for example, can I not put that little lagoon in the upper right corner? Why?? It would be so much nicer and helpful. Well, the same goes for Artrage-- why would I want to reach across my body and the screen to switch a tool? Why wouldn't I want to bind absolutely anything to a keystroke? I dunno. It bothers me more for those two programs than any of the others, because it's so clear that they actually really put a lot of time and attention into the GUI, and yet totally drop the ball on stuff like this, that seems pretty rudimentary in terms of functionality. You know, like, at a drafting board or a desk, how you can put a pencil here, or even over here? ::shock!::

    Anyways. Rant over. :rolleyes:

    Overall--
    1) The reason I had the Menu/Save/Move bar up top was so you could move the little thing out of the way after rolling it up. I wonder if there's an alternate solution, where we break up the arrows, and don't have them all on one row-- thus keeping the functionality of the AHK bar being mobile no matter what, and yet reducing its size? Sort of have Menu/ Master Up-Down Hiding Arrow/ Move buttons on top row, with something like Subordinate Horizontal Arrow 1/ Save Button/ Subordinate Horizontal Arrow 2 on the second row.

    2) Load time doesn't bother me too much. I'll ponder what I'd like in the programs you've suggested. Sometimes it's just hard to think outside of the box-- like, what could I actually do if I could bind things to a key?? I've just not thought about it much.

    3) I like the arrow methodology for sub button-arrays. It follows the same logic as the primary arrow, and yet they each point a different way when their palette is activated (i.e. each points outwards when active). Also, I thought we might need to use L and T somewhere else, and it might therefore cause confusion. On that note, I'd make the arrow icons notably different from the undo icons to avoid confusion.

    4) Re: Menu-- have it start in Artrage I guess. Perhaps it'd be just alphabetical for the Menu list?

    edit- I also wondered if you could have a "Close AHK" option at the bottom of the Menu list?? Seemed easy to do, and you wouldn't have to go into the Taskbar to do it. Plus, since it's in the pull down Menu list, you'd almost never do it by accident, so that issue is solved too. Also, will the icon on the Menu be the currently active program or a kind of "M"?

    5) Straight Line and Ctrl-- first, I think a toggle is the best option. You're exactly right, in that if you're making straight lines, you're doing it repeatedly. I think I'd ditch the timing for Ctrl. As for whether it should be labeled Ctrl-- my desire was to make the interface as consistent as possible between programs. Thus, for example, both Sai and Artrage have a straight line tool, but it's a different key in each program. Rather than having to remember which program uses which button, I figured it'd be easier to simply hit the icon, and the proper program-specific button would get pressed in the background.

    6) Right click in Artrage and 2 layouts- Well, the idea is that having the AHK sub-palletes be available (or rolled up, if one wants) was my way of having two layouts available in one setup, depending on the pen I'm using. If I have a two button pen, then I can use Stroke It for all the Tool commands, in which case the Tool Bar is rolled up. If I don't have that pen, then I'd like those tool commands available. That sort of idea. Does that makes some sense? I wasn't sure why this decision was tied to Artrage having a lot of right-click functions though...??

    7) Hide Layer in Artrage-- I'd never done this before, as I normally use the "Eye" toggle in the Layer Pallete, but if you go to Tools Menu > Layer Options > Layer Visible, you'll see a check next to it. Tap "Layer Visible" and the check will go away, and the layer will be hidden, but there's no actual "Hide Layer" button. I mostly use this when I color in a big area (hair, for example, or a face) with basic 100% opaque tool, then I select it, hide the layer, make a new layer using the selection, and I can then easily paint "within the lines" with whatever variety of shading/colors, etc. I'd like to use. It also works really well if you invert the selection, hide the layer, and make a new layer from the inverted selection if you're painting a background, for example. This would matter less if I painted opaquely, but Artrage and Sai paint with transparency, and I do digital watercolors, which are almost never opaque, so simply putting one layer on top of other doesn't really mask things properly for me. Thus, this methodology. Anyways, that's the function of the whole thing.

    edit- writing that up made me think. Once I'm done painting that, I'll need to Deselect All (Ctrl + D), and that's also in a pulldown menu. It's a big circle of functions. ....I think I need a Deselct All button.

    edit #2- I was also thinking about the potential Hide Layer button. I wonder if it'd just be more functional to have a Layer Panel button, and remove the Hide Layer button. Open the little Layers panel, and there you can easily make a new layer, move it beneath the other layer, and then hide the layer. All things that commonly need to be done, and don't really need buttons because they're all easily accessible without going into menus, etc.

    So, to make clearer-- I'm asking for the Hide Layer button to be replaced with the Deselect All button, and for the Layers Panel button to remain. This simpler setup is reflected in the v2 Artrage Mockup I've attached.

    8) Icons- I'll see what I can do. For the tools, I like the Artrage icons a lot. I find them easily understandable, and think they'd make sense in other art programs. Sai for sure. Is there a way to copy them, desaturate them, and redo them? Or is that opening up a ball of wax? For the layers stuff, let me ponder, and I'll get back to you. I was thinking simple text, but I like icons, frankly. I'd start with text and go from there-- I wouldn't let the lack of icons there slow you down.

    9) I also wanted noodle around a bit with the button arrangement. My thought is that the most used buttons should actually be at the bottom of the primary palette, as that's the middle of the screen, and the quickest to tap. Therefore, I'd move the Color Picker/ Eyedropper row (which I use a lot with color work-- duh!), and switch it with the Transform/ Lasso row, which I use much less. And since we're getting into true nitty gritty ergonomic stuff, I think Lasso should be on the left, and Transform on the right-- you always hit Lasso first, use it, then hit Transform second, use it, then (if Transform and Lasso are toggles), you'd tap Transform to release it and tap Lasso to release it as well. Seems like Lasso on the left would be a better fit. For what its worth... Look at something long enough, and you're sure to find some way to improve it!

    10) Secondary functions for buttons- I had a question. In Artrage, there's a button for Reset Canvas Rotation (Alt + D) and Reset Canvas Scale (Shift + D). I thought it would be nice if you could somehow integrate these functions into the existing rotation and/or zoom buttons. They don't get used much, but are a nice function. Like... say, tap the Rotation button, use right-click and rotate the screen like normal, but if you right-click while you tap the Rotation button, it would then activate Alt + D an reset the canvas rotation. Same for zoom. That sort of idea. Is that even doable? Or perhaps there's a different way to integrate these sort of secondary less-used functions with a button?

    edit-- I've uploaded a simple v2 mockup. It includes the moving around of buttons that we've discussed, with a few other minor changes-- I've removed the Eyedropper, which I almost never use, and have included a Flip Horizontally button, which I thought might be more useful. This is something that's not easily accessible in Artrage, and would be nice to have as a quick-strike kind of button. hit once, and it flips. Hit it again and it returns to original orientation. That kind of thing.
     

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  12. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Program specific ideas for setup--

    For Firefox-
    a) F11 is primary. I really like browsing/reading in Full Screen mode. An extra inch in height is nice. It causes problems though because command keys in the toolbar go away. A lot of this is solved with Fire Gestures and Flicks, but not everything. If I could set a few important things to be in the AHK setup, that would be quite useful. One very annoying bug in AHK is that, when you press a button, it makes the Taskbar appear even if you're in Full Screen mode. I'd really really like this to stop, as it makes Full Screen mode less useful. Can it be done??
    b) Hand toggle for Grab and Drag add on. This is in the tool bar, but if I could use F11 more, then it's invisible.
    c) A way to make the TIP appear? That would be really useful. I've heard of this being bound to a key, but I don't know....???
    d) a way to see the time and amount of battery power-- i.e. the taskbar-- briefly while in Full Screen mode? Ha! I dunno, I figure I'll ask for what I think would be most useful, and see what you guys can create. !!

    For Sai--
    Thatcomicguy's setup is a good starting point.
    1) There's no contextual Color Wheel, and the eyedropper is invariably linked to right-click and can't seem to be undone. It's some sort of bug. So no need for those buttons- I agree with him on that.

    2) You'll need Tab and the Hand, though you don't need them in Artrage. I'd place them down at the bottom of the primary panel so they're easily accessible. Tab on the left and Hand on the right. Tab, of course is just a one hit button. Hand, IMO, should be an on/off toggle like the straight line button, so you can easily return to the drawing tool you were using before you used the Hand.

    3) I'd use the Tool Resize icon and the Ctrl + Alt combo for tool resizing, rather than the 2 buttons thatcomicsguy has, personally. More fluid, and easier to move around to larger sizes. It also will give you the # of the size when resizing with the drag option, which is nice.

    4) I can't get the Rotation button to do anything currently in that setup. Idea?? I also don't know what the big white square does.??

    5) If you can get the taskbar to stop popping up in Full Screen mode, or if you can get the AHK palettes to stop going "under" the running art program when you press F11 to go into Full Screen mode, then it'd very useful to have an F11 button.

    6)I'd remove the eraser and paintbrush, and move them into a toolbar palette, as in Sai. I'd like it have 5 buttons, to sort of line up with the other 5 rows there would be in the primary palette- Eraser, Pen, Brush, Watercolor, Blend-- very similar (or even exactly the same) as in Artrage.

    6) 5 or 6 rows- Rotate/Straight Line, Lasso/Transform, Undo/Redo (set to repeat with 70 ms increments if held), Zoom In/Out (same as Undo/Redo), Tab/F11 (or Rotation??), Hand/ Resize Brush
     
  13. lblb

    lblb Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Thanks for your detailed answers Steve.

    Here are a couple of answers/comments for some of your points in post 71:

    1) I will put the Save button on the second row and then we’ll see if that’s a good setup.

    2)-3) Cool.

    4) A Close AHK option in the menu makes a lot of sense and it can be easily added. I don’t think it would be too much problem having the icon for the Menu correspond to what program is being used. I won’t try to implement that right now (as I’m really just working out the kinks) but just remind me if I seem to forget later on.
    Also note that I think it would be easy to associate hotkeys to do things like completely hide the toolbar, or restart it, or kill it. Maybe some of these could be practical in conjunction with StrokeIt.

    5) Cool.

    6) All good.
    For the pen issue: I think I just misinterpreted your “pen situation”. I thought that the other pen you had didn’t have a side button, which meant to me that you maybe couldn’t right-click easily (so the one-button zoom in Art Rage would be better replaced with the two automatic zoom in/zoom out buttons). But it seems it’s really that with the other pen you can’t use StrokeIt. I get it now!

    7) Good, I’ll see what I can do.

    8) I’ll put text on the buttons for now and we’ll see what we can do with the icons later. As I’ve seen with the EP121 AHK touch script, replacing text with icons can really increase the ease of use of something like this.

    9) Cool. Thanks for the new mockup.

    10) That shouldn’t be too difficult. The rotation button in version 4 of the Art Rage toolbar (see post #55) had a reset rotation function when you right-clicked it. Did that work?



    Here are a couple of answers/comments for some of your points in post 72:


    Firefox:
    a) I’ll see what I can do with this annoying behavior.

    b) No problem for Grab and Drag. Just tell me what is the toggle hotkey that you set in the Grab and Drag options.
    Also, with the EP121 script I developed an app to facilitate the use of Firefox. Maybe you may find some of the functions I included in it interesting for your needs. Take a look at pages 9 and 10 of the instructions here:
    RawInputControl_MultiPanel_2_Instructions_Dec_28.pdf

    c) The TIP shouldn’t be a problem. It’s as easy in AHK to send hotkeys as it is to launch files and programs. All I need is the path for your TIP. Click the Windows Start button and write tabtip.exe (don’t hit return, just let it look for the file). Once it’s found the file, right-click on it and choose properties. What’s the Location?
    Mine is here: C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\ink
    You may also find it if you navigate to something like here:
    C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-tabletpc-inputpanel_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.17514_none_6fb51b358e21d75f\TabTip.exe

    d) I think that can be done quite easily. I’ll see what I can do.

    Sai:
    1)-3) Cool.

    4) This might be because you don’t have the same hotkeys as thatcomicsguy. He posted the ones he’s using on post #44.

    5) I’ll see what I can do. I’ve observed that a few times in Photoshop also. Weird, and very annoying. My temporary solution would be to pin the file for the toolbar to the Windows taskbar or to put an icon in the system tray to allow quickly restarting the toolbar.

    6)-7) Cool.
     
  14. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Ok.

    Artrage-
    1) Yes, the right-click on Rotate button does reset that. A very nice, and simply executable, feature! This would be nice to have on the zoom button as well.

    Sai-
    1) Still can't get rotation do do anything in Sai. I dl'd thatcomicguy's final version. Didn't do anything for me. I tried tap-tap-tap to rotate in increments, tap and drag to rotate, tap and right-click drag, tap and hover-drag, tap and right-click hover drag. Nada. Still don't know what the big white square does either.
    2) If the F11-- i.e. Full Screen makes AHK dissapear-- issue can't be resolved, then I guess I'd go for rotation, assuming we can get rotation to work instead.
    3) For Sai, I just noticed there's a button combo (Ctrl + B) to bring up the Navigator-- the very well done, PS style zoom and rotate box. I was wondering if I could make this stay up after I hit Tab (to make the palettes go away), if I changed something in the ini file. This is a great little tool that reminds me a lot of the compass in Artrage. It does everything I'd want for zoom and rotate, and it's natively built to the program. If we can get it to work when the palettes are hidden, that'd be a nice coup IMO. I'll try and get back to you on this.
    4) Yes, the hide-all arrow on thatcomicguy's version works perfectly.

    Overall-
    I also like that if you accidentally tap the icon for the program in the AHK Toolbar in thatcomicguy's final version, it doesn't startup that program and automatically send you to it (this was happening in an earlier version I believe). Now, it takes you to the program if its open, but otherwise leaves you alone. That's nice. It's more informational than anything else. I'm not sure how things were going to work with how the icon relates to the menu you're creating, but I wouldn't mind it just being informational.... with ONLY the pull down Menu actually creating an action. That sort of idea. Wasn't sure, so I thought I'd mention.

    edit-- I've attached a first round, sample mockup for Sai. This sort of idea. I'll be heading out again for the rest of today, so I'll check back in much later, if you've got more questions or things to share.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. lblb

    lblb Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    For the buttons that don't work in Sai:
    I think in post #44 thatcomicsguy is saying that you have to go somewhere in Sai and set the different tools to have the hotkeys that he describes. Then the buttons on his toolbar should work.
     
  16. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Ahhhhhh..... Will try later then. If so, then it's probably "Rotate by increments". Clearly better than nothing, but if I can get the Navigator to float even when Tab or F11 is hit, that would be even better, since they're both very smooth-- essentially like having a Zoom bar and a Drag to Rotate function.

    Note- one post up I've added a Sai V1 mockup for you to use.
     
  17. lblb

    lblb Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    I don't have time to upload something right now but I'm pretty sure the problem with the toolbar disappearing when toggling full screen is now solved. And I've found a way to show the time and battery power. More later!
     
  18. lblb

    lblb Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    In your mockup v2 for ArtRage:
    - Which one is the flip horizontal? And is that the equivalent of pushing and holding down h?

    In your Sai mockup:
    - What's the command for straight line?
    - For pen resize, is it Ctrl+Alt down with left click dragging?
    - I'm guessing there is a second top row with save and two arrows?
    - I'm confused: Is full screen F11 or Tab? What's the button to the left of F11?
    - Are there commands for reset size and reset rotation to put as right-clicks?
     
  19. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Hey, that's cool news about figuring out the Full Screen/AHK Taskbar Hiding problem!! When you get it in Full Screen, does the Windows Taskbar flash onto the screen briefly every time an AHK key is hit? That's one of the other things I think it was doing before...??? Another very annoying habit that makes Full Screen a pain with the AHK setup. If those two things are ironed out, that's big news to me, because it means I don't need to compromise with my screen real estate to use your AHK creations. !!

    On my Sai mockup, Flip Horizontal was the icon with two arrows, one on top of the other, each pointing in a different direction. It's on the actual Sai toolbar, just below the menus up top, and so I just used their icon. You don't need to hold it. You just tap it and it flips the screen. Tap it again and it flips back. Good for hunting out drawing mistakes.

    Straight line is Shift in Sai. You need to hold it down. You press it, and wherever you set the pen down, it draws a straight line between that point and wherever you last touched the screen. Not perfect, but it does ok. Keep it held down and tap the screen somewhere else, and it will draw a new straight line to that point, etc etc. Lift up Shift, and you start drawing like normal again. So I guess it needs to be a toggle button, like in Artrage.

    For Resize, it's Ctrl + Alt and then Drag. No need for other clicking. This just needs some sort of timed release that's long enough to let me get my stylus on the screen after taping the AHK button. Then, as long as it stays "pressed" till I lift the pen, all is good. I think you had this working well in Artrage, right?

    As for the second top row of 3 small buttons-- I couldn't figure out where to put things. I've never been able to figure out the Selection process in Sai, plus Sai's so good at setting up textures tool by tool without having to go into menus, that I don't need to use things like Artrage's "Stencils" and "Layer Textures". That's changed the way I do color work in Sai. The result? I don't use all the layers commands the way I do in Artrage. Therefore, no need for the extra arrow. After that, I couldn't figure out where to put everything. :D A save button still sounds great, but I couldn't figure out where to put it.... ???

    Tab hides the panels (color, layers, tools, navigator, etc). F11 hides the Windows Taskbar, and then hides even the Sai drop down menus if you press it again. I press Tab all the time while painting, and occassionally press F11 when I'm setting things up or multi-tasking. The button to the left of F11 in my mockup is the Tab button-- I stole it from thatcomicguys Sai AHK setup.
     
  20. Steve B

    Steve B Moderator Moderator

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    Also, I've had an interesting breakthrough while experimenting with Sai and it's panel layout last night and today.

    If you open your Sai folder (type Sai in the search bar> right click Sai> find location... I had a helluva time finding it the first time, because it's not in your Program Files), and then open up its misc file (aka, the configurations file), here you can easily set up a number of basic layout models be either putting a "0" or a "1" in a few given fields. It's a text file, and so is super easy to figure out. I put a "1" in the PopupNavigator line, so that the Navigator is now a separate, mobile, small window. Using Ctrl + B, I can now bring up just the Navigator while in Full Screen mode.

    To me, this is super super useful. The Navigator is well done, IMO, and has a slider for zoom, a slider for rotate, reset buttons for both, and a small navigable panel that allows you to pan the full-sized canvas. Being able to use this while in Full Screen mode is one of the things I was wishing to be able to do in Artrage. Now, I really can do it in Sai.

    Setting up, and being able to hit a single hotkey button to open and close that feature is awesome news because it frees up and simplifies the button arrangement in the Sai AHK toolbar. To me, you wouldn't need a Rotate button, either Zoom button, the ability to reset either, or even the Hand. Just a Ctrl + B button, with "Nav" or "N" on it to open that panel.

    Perhaps this is an example, though, where it would be good to have, like you suggested, two different versions of the Sai AHK setup to choose from in the Menu? One with the Navigator Window as a popup, taking up the need for and removing those commands from the toolbar, and one where you still have zoom, rotate, etc. in the AHK toolbar. ??

    I'm also going to post in the Sai forums about the Selection and Layer functions, so perhaps I can find out more about its capabilties, and if there are functions I don't know about yet that I'd like to set to key commands.
     

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