Photography Art / Freelance pay and work

Discussion in 'Artists' started by doobiedoobiedum, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. doobiedoobiedum

    doobiedoobiedum Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Marty I'd say it really depends on your relationship with your client, if you know and have worked with this person before and trust them you wouldn't start doing the contract thing straight off. I suppose it also depends on the work you're doing too - even with a non-profit organisation you might want to have some form of agreement sorted.
    The city I'm in, my students and I do a lot of illustration work with the city council, I know they guy and we don't need contracts but if I went (which I plan to do) to another city in a few years by myself I would be looking to do things on a professional footing. I wouldn't know the people I'd be working with but starting from a contract would show a level of professionalism that might help soothe the client.

    I don't think contracts are just for protecting yourself against rogue clients, it can also show your client you are a seasoned pro who's done this before.

    Tell you what I'm envious of though - anyone like "thatcomicsguy" earning a living from his own comic work. That is so cool because it really comes down to your own effort, your destiny in your own hands.
     
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  2. Azzart

    Azzart Late night illustrator Senior Member

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    Indeed.

    Regarding the contract, back when I happened to take some local job I used to tell the client it was also for his own sake, so he knew he had something written that bound me to deliver a work in a certain manner.
     
  3. YVerloc

    YVerloc Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Don’t forget the fact that contracts also protect the client too; it’s an agreement between two parties. It usually stipulates the you’ll keep their trade secrets confidential, your work for them confidential, that you’ll bear the burden of penalty if you’ve broken any copyrights while making the work, and let’s them know what rights they have over the work and how they can use it. Professional clients usually want that stuff.

    As for scaring away mom and pop clients, I can see that it could. You can streamline the decision process there (if you can afford to): if you’re willing to do it for free to help them out, then don’t bother with a contract. If you can’t afford to donate your time, then you can’t afford to work with clients who would be scared off by a simple contract.
     
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  4. icecoldart

    icecoldart Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Well then during the freelance days I was lucky to not chase any client when it comes to payment, however I always sorted out the terms beforehand. On top of that when dealing with new client's I hand to no reason to trust yet I always made sure that any progress samples were mostly unusable, low res etc. Those simple things helped me personally, but your milage may vary.

    I also must add that I had my best clients be the people from kickstarter projects, passionate about what they do, just like ourselves :)

    Check out this skies of fire Cover I did a while back, then scroll down and see what bonueses and a thank you letter I got after the job, priceless :)

    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/YgPdb

    As for now I do have a day job with flexible hours, great people to work with and atleast for my country a good salary, doing what I like, can't complain :)

    Yet it's kind of sad that a store clerk in the UK earns more than a professional illustrator like myself lol. And yes, I could go back to freelance and with good effort improve on that, but to be honest I've grown to like the "stability", not having to deal with awful clients nor hunt for new ones.

    Wish you luck, and may the force be with you ;)

    P.S YVerloc I too do remmember you vrom conceptart.org ! Could you share your portfolio with us? I'd love tot ake a look at your work after so many years !
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
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  5. doobiedoobiedum

    doobiedoobiedum Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Love it!

    Big thing we have here now is "internships" - students on a degree course fall over themselves for an internship with a big design / art house. If you're lucky you get an internship while on your graduate degree / masters postgraduate degree so you're still being paid to live. Atomhawk in Newcastle do a lot of them - it's a buyers market in digital concept art. There are also so many kids painting up some amazing stuff in their bedrooms and just happy for their work to be seen on a big website for free.

    If you're unlucky, the internship is after you finish your degree. Years ago, I had a fashion ex student contact me for advice about an internship with Republic fashion design studio - they wanted her for a year, 5 days a week. Unpaid. She'd just finished her degree and couldn't afford to live unpaid. I asked her to see if they would let her work 3 days a week with them so he had other days to do paid work to pay rent and they said no, it had to be 5 days a week.
    She didn't go ahead with it - she came back and got a job in a different area of fashion and after 6 years hard work with that company she left and she now sells her own hand made luxury handbags in Abu Dhabi.

    I hate internships with a passion. So unfair on new talent.

    However, like I said on the other thread - the budgets for a lot of commercial production has not fallen compared to when I did freelance. In fact it's gone up and I think in some cases maybe to pay for other arts services that go into the projects.
     
  6. Marty

    Marty Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Is this legal? o_O

    (I didn't know they still practiced slavery in the UK. :p)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  7. icecoldart

    icecoldart Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Haha, my thoughts exactly. I'd never agree to work for free for that long unless it's charity and it's my conscious decision. Do a test sample sure, but something like that is rubbish, despite the fact you learn a lot, but you can learn a lot elsewhere and get paid for it ;)

    Anyhow, that's just my two cents.

    Well I myself am a self taught artist, with no degree in Art but I never even thought about an internship before, it could be helpfull all those years back.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
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  8. Azzart

    Azzart Late night illustrator Senior Member

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    You're from Poland if I remember correctly?
    Lately there has been a massive increase of incredibly talented polish illustrators.
    I wonder if it's something in the water there...
     
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  9. doobiedoobiedum

    doobiedoobiedum Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Not legal anymore but it's now minimum pay and half these young kids can't afford the rent and living costs to stay in London if that's where the internship is.

    Here's a heartbreaking example from 2014. Fashion marketing internship experience.
     
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  10. icecoldart

    icecoldart Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I am, correct.

    Well it's mostly thanks to how easy it is to get some online education nowadays I believe, when I was starting out there was just conceptart.org :p so we have some similiar experience Azz! :)
     
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