Out with the old (EMR) and in with the new (AES)?

Discussion in 'What Tablet PC Should I Buy?' started by dunami, Oct 28, 2015.

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  1. siddhartth

    siddhartth Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    any body please compare the following techs - aes (wacom), ntrig(improved sp4), emr (wacom), on the following criteria- (1 to 10 scale)
    1. activation pressure to register the stroke
    2. parallax
    3. latency
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  2. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I can't speak for AES or N-Trig to compare, but I did just post a little video showing EMR performance on an old Wacom Penabled Tablet PC. Inking starts at 3:20



    I would rate:

    1. Activation (where 1 takes zero pressure and 10 takes leaning on the stylus to make a line) Wacom TabletPC EMR = 3 (The the weight of the pen itself doesn't activate, but you don't really have to press hard enough to notice that you're having to do so to make the line start. I find it's about the same as a 2H pencil.)

    2. Parallax: I don't notice it, so can't really rate it. It's different between machines depending on the screen thickness. Maybe a 2 to 3 within the general drawing area on my TPC screen, but only if I'm looking for it.

    3. Latency: where 0 is perfect. (Nobody has ever made this; 0 is science fiction) 1 is as close to perfect as we've ever gotten; think, high-end Cintiq connected to a killer work station. 2 is noticeable, but the effect is so small it's basically not there for all intents and purposes. 3 is beginning to affect the user's awareness and might be annoying to people who are used to working with a 1 or 2, but isn't terrible. A 4 might be ignored by note-takers, but for artists, it is going to be apparent, and while you can work with it, it's never going to feel quite right. 5 is just flat out annoying. Anything 6 and above isn't worth talking about.

    Also... It depends on the computer's CPU, the drawing program and how you have things set up. On mine, with a basic pencil or ink nib digital equivalent, it's really low, like maybe 1 or 2. With a big enough brush on a big enough canvas with enough layers, it can be all the way up to 10.

    From all the AES videos I've seen, the very best is Wacom's new version, and I'd rate that at maybe 3. N-Trig's latest looks like a 3-4, and previous N-Trig incarnations are 5 and above.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
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  3. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Great tip with spline curve guide tool! Yeah, MangaLabo is my favorite for line work too!

    One thing I've noticed, though, is MangaLabo seems to work best with the "old-school" Wacom EMR digitizers (many of which are listed here). For example, the with digitizer on the Cube i7 Stylus there is noticeable stroke latency compared with the near instant response on my EP121.

    When I get the chance, I'll try to some more testing with various setups, but I've yet to figure out just what magic MangaLabo is doing to get the stroke latency so low. I have a feeling it's capturing the raw input at at lower level than either CSP or PS somehow...

    Have you tested MangaLabo on your other machines? Do you notice any variation by digitizer?
     
  4. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I use it both on my WinXP backpack TPC, and my Win7 Cintiq studio machine, (which is just a Core i5 Dell) . It works nicely in both.

    -Though, one thing it does on the older WinXP computer which shows that hardware's age is when I use the "hand" tool to move the canvas around. There's always a little delay, (you can see it in the video) like the canvas is stuck to the desk for a fraction of a second before responding. That can be annoying. -But on my newer, more powerful computer, there's no issue.

    And props again to Photoshop, which doesn't experience any delay at all with the same action even on much older hardware.

    I suspect the 64bit version (still in beta) of Mangalabo will perform much more nicely on modern systems. If you can read Japanese, you could try it out...

    http://www.portalgraphics.net/cl/download/beta/cl_09/cl_plus_09137.zip

    (Updated again just a few days ago! The official release ought to be coming pretty soon now.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
  5. siddhartth

    siddhartth Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    i already have wacom emr on my note 3, i m unimpressed with it. the tip of the pen is too big. parallax makes me feel i have no presicion control. i need it mostly for note taking not artwork. i need a thinner pen nib and tip and lesser parallax.

    i was really curious about wacom aes vs new ntrig pen on surface and may be apple pencil.

    still, thanks @thatcomicsguy.

    to others, who have tested both surfacepro4 and toshiba encore write 2 or dynabook.
    let me know which gives u the best handwriting and feeling of control.
     
  6. Kumabjorn

    Kumabjorn ***** is back Senior Member

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    I have used both and can say that there really isn't any difference between the two systems.

    Twitter is to communications as haiku is to literature.
     
  7. TruenoGT

    TruenoGT Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Having used all 3 quite a bit, including the newer N-Trig on SP4 and AES on the new Skylake Yoga 14 and many EMR models, I would encourage anyone to try before you buy wherever possible, particularly if you're coming from a previous pen solution.

    There's pros and cons to each, and it's clear to me from responses in the forum that for some people's drawing/writing/working style (including which programs they prefer), there won't be much noticeable difference, but for others, the differences might be a total deal breaker. For example, I'll give up some edge accuracy and parallax for less jitter, but for others the opposite is true. It's all about where you're coming from and what characteristics you're able to work around.
     
  8. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Note series and their toothpick pens were not very satisfying, I found. The screens were too small, the CPU power too little, the tips too rubbery (at least on the Galaxy Note Pro 12.2), and the Android OS too limiting.

    All of that offset any benefit brought to the system by the EMR kinetic aesthetics, I found.
     
  9. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes, I hate the rubber S-pen tips with a passion. I never used their pens on my old Note 10.1. Always used my Axiotron pen.
     
  10. Jamon

    Jamon Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Every time I see this title, I hear, "Out with the old, in with the nucleus", because "new (AES)" rhymes with "nucleus", and that phrase is popular. Was that intentional?
     
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