New n trig stylus initial activation force (IAF) how good is it now?

Discussion in 'The Tablet PC Life' started by JSONB, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. JSONB

    JSONB Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I am looking at the latest ntrig tech in the new Surface Book 2 and will be trying to decide between that and wacom EMR or maybe AES.


    I am looking at either the new Surface Book 2 or Samsung Notebook Pro 9 (8th gen i7, wacom EMR), or mayb even the Yoga 920 (7th gen , wacom AES).
    I do care about straight lines but I mainly care about IAF since it is important for ergonomics and long pen sessions. I also like to hold my pen like a brush at times.


    I know that traditional wacom has been known to have the best IAF. I have an original Surface Pro Gen1, an iPad Pro (first gen) + Note 8.

    The Surface Pro and the iPad Pro are amazing, I have to put NO pressure for detection. I barely make contact and I get instant recognition. However, I got a Steadler Noris pencil to use with the Surface + Note and it's not so great with IAF (I have a bamboo I use for the surface which is great only on the surface but worse on the note than the Noris).


    The Note 8 S-Pen it comes with is even worse with IAF, quite horrible actually, I am concerned that the new wacom EMR has gotten worse? Or maybe it's just lack of controls?


    I will probably need to go to a Microsoft Store to try out stuff but not sure if they will have a way to modify the pen curves.

    What do you guys suggest? A bit disappointing by the Note 8 and it's lack of pen pressure adjustments (tried a few apps including Sketchbook , which seems to be the best for IAF). I am still amazed at how good it is just because it's a phone though.


    Thanks
     
  2. DRTigerlilly

    DRTigerlilly Tablet Lead Mod (Retired) Super Moderator

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    It is still nowhere near Wacom EMR IAF or smoothness.

    try the Samsung Notebook 9 Pro in store if you can.
     
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  3. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Regarding the Surface Pro Gen 1.....that uses the old school Tablet PC EMR Wacom used to give to everyone. The current crop of S-pen devices......or rather from the Note 4/5 generation and up saw lower IAF then older note devices. This was….artificially rigged I’m assuming….since this came at the expense of compatibility with older EMR Pens as their IAF is now either super low or super high. What this means is that.....most of the pens designed for the Pro 1 Gen EMR..like your Bamboo Pen...will work like crap on more modern devices like the Note 8, Notebook 9 Pro, and Galaxy Books. I have quite a few older pens that are pretty much worthless on modern Samsung devices since the IAF is so wonky. The reverse is also true….pens like the Norris pencil that are designed for the current S-pen devices will probably work pretty poorly on older devices like the Gen 1 Surface Pro.


    Also….with the most current crop of S-pen….with the super thin….literally looks like a toothpick nib…….The Black Nib…..has horrible IAF. If your Note 8 came with a nib kit….there should be grey ones…..the grey ones are way way better at IAF. Also….the included S-pen you have for the Note 8 could be busted. I have a Note 5….beautiful IAF on the stock s-pen….lost the pen somehow…bought a replacement off Ebay….fits in the silo fine….looks exactly the same….but IAF is a lot worse. Since I suspect the low IAF is…..manufactured….much like my current Note 5 Pen…..your Note 8 pen could also be busted or just a bad pen. Take your note 8 to phone store or best buy and see if the S-pens on Demo work better. Also if your best buy has a Samsung section….see if they have the larger S-pens with the current tablets….and look for the grey nib. It will feel way lower IAF. And don’t bother with Sketchbook on your Note 8….Medibang Paint is the current king of Android Art apps as far as I’m concerned.
     
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  4. JSONB

    JSONB Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Thanks for the heads up. The Samsung Noris pencil is a little better on the Note 8 so I'll have to check out the pen and alternative nibs.

    Not sure if you mean the newer devices with newer EMR require less pressure to register or the opposite? Assuming the right pen is used.


    I do wish Surface had stuck with the wacom tech.
     
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  5. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    New Surface pen's IAF is pretty close but since EMR pens don't have to share the digitizer with touch like MPP, it will always be smoother on initial contact. That goes same vs AES.

    Having said that, I feel that if you know the reason for that initial micro-delay with MMP and AES vs EMR, you can learn to not only deal with it consciously but also subconsciously so that you don't miss a beat as you sketch very fast.

    I honestly found the latest MPP device I used with Wacom Bamboo INK to be as smooth as pen experience as I need it to be. Should be very much the same with the new Surface pen if you deem you need the tilt function.
     
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  6. JSONB

    JSONB Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Interesting. I am mainly concerned with the amount of force I need to use than anything else, so I will have to try these out in person if I can find them at Best Buy / Ms store.


    I am hopeful for ntrig since the surface does seem like a great concept.
     
  7. ATIVQ

    ATIVQ V⅁O⅄ Senior Member

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    The minimum pressure is set by the pen, not the digitizer, so using the Bamboo Ink is a great solution for non-tilt AES and MPP devices. It's a mystery why Microsoft hasn't implemented EMR-like pressure sensors in their pens yet.

    The time from when you first put down the pen to the first accurate stroke will always be faster on EMR because it's always in accurate-mode, while AES and MPP switch from low-power hover mode to accurate high-power ink mode. A simple solution would be to not have low-power hover mode, or switch to high-power faster.

    Since you like EMR and Apple Pencil the best you might want to stick to those, if painting is your main use for the device.
     
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  8. andya147

    andya147 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    ive got all the devices my take on it is Samsung notebook pro 9 is the smoothest experience but is lacking the Wacom control panel and it will never get the feel drivers as this will have an impact on Wacom studio pro sales and Wacom wont allow that ..certain art programs like artrage the IAF isn't great on the Samsung notebook pro 9 ..also the quality control on the 15inch one I think isn't great ive had dead pixels backlight bleed the list goes on most people couldn't care less but I like things to be as perfect as possible ..Samsung book 12 oled superb great IAF but I get headaches with the oled .surface book 2 I think the new pen is far better than last years and the IAF is great im ultra picky also you must change the nib to the hard nib and the IAF is really good ,only problem is jitter and I cant get perfect circles and I think its over priced ..what no one mentions which I find strange is Samsung don't even sell the notebook pro 9 any more so I think its a limited run so not to hurt Wacom studio pro sales after all Samsung only have a 5% stake in Wacom and the new 13 inch Samsung note pen is also a bit iffy no 15inch version lol I just hope one day apple release a mac book with the apple pencil then atlast wacoms days will be over ..the reason im anty Wacom is there are a lot of artists who just cant afford these devices and if Wacom had clue they would be much cheaper.................I find the quality control these days is very poor unless these thing are pointed out most people wouldn't have a clue ,out of all the devices ipad pro 12.9 Samsung notebook ,Samsung book ect ect I think the surface book 1 and 2 have the best screens and maybe the quality control is better controlled by Microsoft
     

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    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  9. DRTigerlilly

    DRTigerlilly Tablet Lead Mod (Retired) Super Moderator

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    The Surfaces have backlight bleed as well, I am not sure about that pronouncement of quality control re Microsoft

    Sent from my m8 using Tapatalk
     
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  10. andya147

    andya147 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    none of the surface books 1 and 2 that I have purchased have ever been as bad as the Samsung bleed .I am talking about screen quality control and not overall control .very well calibrated out of the factory and yes im sure some will have backlight bleed but in the end who cares I do but maybe not everyone is like me
     
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