My personal wishlist for the next tx series tablet

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard' started by atom, Jul 31, 2008.

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  1. gordoncahill

    gordoncahill Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I've got a couple of Centrino laptops and in the same conditions I don't find the TX any warmer. But....

    The only inlet vents on the TX are on the bottom and they are very small compared to other machines I own. They are so easy to block and fill up with lint easily. Once blocked in any way the temperature skyrockets.

    And having tried several tablets/laptops with the Intel chips I don't personally see a performance increase that would justify the increase in cost. (of course that's for the programs I use. YMMV)

    Having said that my list is:

    1. Keep the price down and don't do anything that's going to push the price up. If I wanted a more expensive machine there are plenty to choose from.

    2. Optional battery and HDD for the DVD drive bay.

    3. External battery charger.

    4. Smaller bezel aroud the screen and make the screen flush with the bezel.

    5. GET RID OF THE CRAPWARE.

    6. firewire port would be nice. Would even give up a USB port to have it.

    7. DVI instead of VGA out

    8. Smaller power brick.

    9. HDMI out instead of Svideo.

    10. Proper quickplay or no quickplay

    11. Customisable tablet buttons.

    12. Keyboard from TX 1000 or at least one that's quiet to type on.

    And if we're asking for the imposible... Can you make me a 10" version please...

    Gordon
     
  2. billycat

    billycat Pen Pal - Newbie

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    There's a Intel compatible IGP with HD 3400 series?

    Otherwise you'd take up a bit of real estate with a North Bridge as well as a GPU. Which I'd think would be an issue in a small form factor machine.
     
  3. billycat

    billycat Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Exactly.... If you are using it as a glorified notepad with Office. Tx2500 can run that at 600MHz. Stays nice and cool to boot. The thing with Puma IS that it can dial down to what you need. And then crank up to what you need. You can always go slower. What you can't do is go faster. But the point is to break out of the traditional niche mold of the tablet.

    Which is pretty much what mainstream is about these days.

    There is a post above this one that says it's not an issue for "general tablet usage" as you put it. I have one (I'm not sure you do) and I don't find it an issue for "general tablet usage". (1.2GHz, which is what most ULVs are at anyway) Is it hot when you have a game going at full tilt? YES! But then, with the 2500, at least you have the option. Does it use more power/pump out more heat than a ULV 1.2 at 1.2GHz? Yes. But no overly so that it's a big liability. As matter of fact, mine is only slightly warm at that speed. (Probably because they designed the cooling for TDP of a 2.4GHz.)

    Actually it is. I can play a HD 720p vid at 600MHz. I can watch a 2 hr + football game on a 6 cell (obviously commercials are taken out ;) ). Can a ULV 1.2 GHz decode h.264/AVC 720p with an x3100? Yes, but it's pretty much going full tilt. Not sure if it can handle subtitles/multiple audio streams. I *KNOW* for a fact that the tx2500 can do that at 1/2 speed. Stays pretty cool to boot. So, other than games (which other machines generally can't play any way with the exception of CX140 series) why would the tx2500 ever heat up for general usage?

    Why all the talk about graphics/multimedia? For the general populace, what CPU intensive tasks don't require graphics? Unless you're running Matlab, routing PCBs or crunching serious numbers, you can get all you need out of 1.6GHz or so (Which is why I said for the current niche market that tablet occupies (glorified notebook/PDA replacement market) Lenovo x61 is all you'll ever need. There's a reason there's not even an optical drive) It's when you want your tablet to do more you run into problems. And quite frankly, IMO, tablet has been in that niche long enough. (It's even considered a commercial failure by many due to the numbers sold)

    Am I advocating that Tx2500 is perfect? Just the litany of wants on this thread shows that that is not the case. But at least it's trying to break out of the trend (less powerful, smaller, more limited task scope) along with the Gateway at a price to get people INTO the tablets. And doing it with a well rounded machine. (It's been tried before - see Toshiba et all. But at a premium that left most of the buyers disinterested.) I hope this time it succeeds because it can only mean lower prices and more choices (including software.) for tablet consumers. There is nothing wrong with the word "consumer". In the end, all buyers are "consumers".


    To get back on the topic, this talk of games has reminded me that Tx2500 could use a connector for Hybrid CrossFire.

    EDIT: To echo gordoncahill's comments:

    External battery charger would be fantastic. It's easy enough to just carry an extra battery in my bag (6cell + an 8 cell = 7 hrs or so of "general tablet usage". Generally, more like 4-6 hrs since you tend to swap it out before first one drains to the limit and occasionally do a little "cpu intensive" stuff.)
     
  4. atom

    atom Pen Pro - Atomic Member

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    Except, why would you want to run it at 600Mhz? You shouldn't have to underclock your processor that much to get sufficient battery life and for it to run cool. Also, you can underclock any processor, not just the Puma.

    Yep.

    1.) I do not understand the fantasies of playing games on Tablets, tablets shouldn't be used for games, period. Sure many manufacturers have tried but you are getting a severely gimped result. There is a reason manufactures don't stick a 8800GTS in tablets.



    Ah, but when "consumer" means poor build quality, excessively grainy and glossy screens, do you want "consumer" or "business".

    Anyway, nothing is wrong with the tx2500z. But its undeniable that the AMD Puma is excessively hot and drains battery life too much. Sure a Core 2 Duo would raise the price a bit, but it would also have another hour or two of battery life on the same battery (whether it be 6 or 8 cell) not to mention comparable, or even better performance (Depending if you get Penryn or not).

    Its pretty obvious that the only reason HP is using AMD on their 'consumer' models is because its alot cheaper then Intel. Hence why they use Intel on their superior "Business" line of laptops.

    Anyway, this discussion is meaning less because I have recommended the tx2500 to several people at this forum, I am not bias or prejudice towards any of the manufacturers or tablets. The disadvantage of the tx2500z should be clear enough to people when they read the reviews. As well as its advantages.
     
  5. Dojomann

    Dojomann Convertible Converter

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    As far as the whole playing games on a tablet thing, I'm not always inking on the tablet, and it's nice to kick back and play a game (make a note, I'm always carrying a mouse with me, just for such an occasion). With the proper hardware, it's very cozy and nice to be able to bring the computer downstairs, or even to a friend's house all the while having it be compact and versatile enough to bring to college.

    Other than that, to an earlier poster, sorry about the whole sideport memory issue, I guess I was a bit mis-educated on the whole matter.

    Either way, I'm gladly willing to shell out a good 2 thousand dollars for a really great machine. That is, if it's totally worth it and it has something unique going for it.

    EDIT: I guess when it comes to it, I treat my tablet as a laptop for the most part. I use the touch screen for some gestures to ease my way into browsing the net and such, use the pen to take a quick note or make a doodle (this came in REALLY handy for making a quick messy "schedule" earlier). It's just that extra available way of input that makes this tablet pc great. OH, also I totally love the fingerprint reader. Keeps the laptop relatively secure, and if I time it right, I can actually bypass the logon screen altogether as if I had no password.

    EDIT2: Oh and on the comment about an expresscard for the tv tuner: Yeah, you can have that for sure, but it sticks out, and you can't fold the antenna down or anything. It's very clunky. Would it be possible to integrate the antenna into the screen for watching OTA television?

    Oh, and just for kicks, it would absolutely positively kick ass to bump the resolution of the screen to a mind-numbing 1680x1050. Raise that DPI up and have some amazing fidelity. Would suck for non DPI sensitive apps though, which most of them are, and that's why this probably won't happen. Dammit.

    Jeez, I keep editing this, but anyhow, as a question, have there ever been any laptops with screen calibration built into the LCD somehow? Much like an external monitor? It would be kinda cool to set colour temperature, contrast and all that for the screen and not have it be software based.
     
  6. gordoncahill

    gordoncahill Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I'm all for wish lists (mine's above) (they're a bit of fun - I like to see what other people would use their machines for) but why do they always have to degenerate into an Intel vs AMD debate? It's just ridiculous.

    The TX is what it is BECAUSE of its compromises, not in spite of them. If you want an Intel processor that MAY run faster, for some programs ( I guarantee you for many of the major players like Photoshop it wont)and a screen with perfect visibility then you should be on the Fujitsu forum. If you want 10 hours of battery and no heat then go buy an anaemic ULV processor, but don't keep complaining that it won't do gaming and has no drive.

    The TX is pretty decent VALUE. You get a reasonably quick (yeah it is quick, especially compared to most tablets with their ULV processors) machine that can do a reasonable job of gaming, has great ink, is reasonably portable, can play movies with its INTEGRATED DVD drive, has tons of ports, express card expansion etc etc etc....

    In every category it does a pretty good job. And in every category there is a machine that ndoes something better. Faster, longer, cooler, brighter. But show me a machine that does EVERYTHING better at a similar price. Something that does it all and is better value..

    Consumer or business? If business means a choice between a 1.2 ULV or $3000 I'll take consumer, thanks very much.

    And why not play games on Tablets? I'm not a gamer (too old, fat and grumpy) but I imagine that most people buy ONE computer. Students may have a major prerequisite for OneNote usage but why not a few games in your down time. If we were all just using them as tablets there'd be 50 slates available to choose from.

    Yeah I want the next one to be better. But I'm happy with this one as well. I knew what I was getting into before I plonked down my credit card. If you don't want AMD, fine there are choices and they all also have their own compromises. Just like the TX

    <\end rant>

    I think I need a coffee.......

    Gordon
     
  7. atom

    atom Pen Pro - Atomic Member

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    Gateway c142xl did everything better. Too bad Gateway isn't selling them at their online store right now :X. Also, saying all of the Intel Tablets are ULV is pretty ignorant... the Fujitsu t4220, Toshiba M700, Toshiba R25, Gateway C142xl, Gateway c140x and the Toshiba R20 disagree.

    Anyway, again my 'personal wishlist' just wants them to put an Intel processor (perferably Penyrn), and better build quality. However, people are insecure and have to go around saying how good Puma is. Its undeniable that Puma is worse than Core 2 Duo when it comes to speed, performance, power consumption and heat output. There is a reason that its a low end processor.

    Though, of course for budget laptops like the tx2500z its more than enough. Though, I would take battery life in a tablet over anything. I mean even in the reviews, Puma only gives a 5% gain over Turion (PCMark) yet the tx2500z has a lower battery life than the tx2000z. I thought it was pretty obvious that the reason to buy the tx2500z would be if you are into graphically intensive things/gaming on your tablet. The only significant advantage of the tx2500z is the ATI 3200HD.
     
  8. DRTigerlilly

    DRTigerlilly Tablet Lead Mod (Retired) Super Moderator

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    Value all becomes relative, if you buy the machine with the greatest bang for the buck and then have issues w/ it.

    I honestly hope for ther sake of those of the forum member w/ this machine that PUMA has addressed the issues that are beginning to crop up in the tx1000/2000 machines.

    btw the mobo/wifi/fingerprint and other hardware failures documented on this site alone, and all HP is recommending is a bios update, and users have reported that after updating the bios they are still having these failures, it gives me MUCH trepidation about investing in this machine line, even if it costs considerably less than the others.

    I've always advocated warranty's for portables, and moreso in the case of the tx line. (Some users have unfortunately found this out the hard way)

    It's also funny to me that everyone touts the processor of the puma platform to be more powerful than the LV processors, yet in the benchmarks for eg, the x61 tablet gets better values for pi @ 1.6ghz on a Low Voltage processor than the tx2500 gets w/ 2.4ghz on a full processor.

    In the final analysis, as has been mentioned here, i will iterate, no tablet is perfect, it's all a matter of compromise, and each individual has to decide for themselves, what they are willing to compromise.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2015
  9. atom

    atom Pen Pro - Atomic Member

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    Also, I might add, if you do have a HP tx series tablet, I wouldn't really be worried or regret your purchase. The HP Consumer tablets are pretty good, but they aren't the best. (Ironically.. one of the better selling 'consumer tablets' the Gateway c142xl has been discontinued temporarily.. dumb Gateway).
    Anyway, if I owned a tx2500 I would be bragging about how I have a 3200HD :p. I wonder how many people even take advantage of the 3200HD rather than just getting one for the low price..

    Anyway, as the for thread.

    Get rid of Puma.. put an Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8ghz ULV (Seriously, its only 100 points less in PC mark than the 2.4Ghz Puma..) and for Gods sake get rid of the glossy screen. (Does anyone here even like the glossy screen..? There are no advantages of it.. just countless disadvantages)
     
  10. gordoncahill

    gordoncahill Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Ok. I've had my coffee.

    When you say it's a low end processor you should also remember it's a lower COST processor as well. Sure you could use a 1.86 Intel to save some cost but then there'e the motherboard, GPU and other components. In the end would your costs of production blow out compared to what you can get a TX for. ANyway for what "I" need I'd rather have a 2.2 AMD over a 1.6 or 1.8 Intel chip.

    The Gateway (which I've never seen) seems like a good machine IF you want a 14" screen. So as far as portability goes it's not as strong as the TX. But IF you need a 14" screen it's a far better choice. And yes there are more portable units again but the Gateway still does not match the TX for using in slate mode or whilst standing. Again you need to compromise. My ultimate would be a 10" version of the TX, but I don't think I'm going to get it.

    For the programs "I" use (Office, OneNote, Photoshop, Lightroom, Web creation stuff) There is absolutely no real world difference in performance between an AMD 2.2 (what I have) and an Intel 2.2. Yes I have done some comparisons. Next time I calculate Pi to a million places I'll make sure I do it on an intel box. And performance is not just CPU. If you do like to play the odd game, or encode video then the processor argument is mute if your GPU is a huge bottleneck. In the areas of gaming and other GPU intensive areas the TX25xx is actually the market leader in performance, for a tablet, is it not?

    I take care of my gear. If it's good out of the box then it will stay that way. If I break the TX then I'm sure no other tablet except a touhbook would have survived. YMMV. But quality control is getting worse regardless of price. For example, I've recently sent back my third digital camera back for faulty workmanship and poor quality control. I've had each ne less than a week. The back is about $25,000 and it's still not built properly. So every device needs to be thoroughly inspected not just the cheap ones.

    And if you peruse the different forums I think you'll quickly find that many of the current and recent machines have widely reported issues, not just the HP. With the exception of maybe the Original TC1100 and the Fujitsu's. I wonder if I'd be more upset when my $3000 dell (hyothetical. I have no dell) has issues than my $800 TX?

    I said "most" not "all" processors in tablets are ULV which historically has been true. And with good reason. "Most" users of tablets need battery life over processor speed. If there's a difference between OneNote, Word or Outlook on a 1.2 ULV, a Puma and a Core 2 Duo I haven't seen it.

    My point (although badly put last time) is that when someone starts a "what do you wish for" thread they usually mean "what do you wish for at the same or similar price". There are already better screens, faster CPU's, longer batteries, better build qualities. YOu don't have to wait. They're there for you today. But they cost more. If you want Perryn, fine. If you need to calculate pi on a daily basis, fine, If you need a bigger/smaller/wider/thinner screen fine. Just be prepared to pay for it. So the AMD chips have one other advantage over the Intels. They keep the cost down.


    and +1 on the glossy screen thing.


    hmmm.... where's that coffee...

    Gordon
     
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