MPP tricks and optimization?

Discussion in 'The Tablet PC Life' started by chucklepunch, Oct 19, 2021.

  1. chucklepunch

    chucklepunch Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Heeeyyya

    The question: Aside from resyncing the bluetooth connection and driver downloads... are there any other ways to address MPP stylus performance? Within windows or with additional software, as this is a Surface Pen on a non-Surface laptop.

    Details: I've been using EMR and AES devices for about 20 years now. Typically Lenovo, which have always been super reliable from a stylus performance perspective. However, Asus launched the new X13 Flow with a RTX 3050ti + Ryzen 9 5900HS- which finally brings together all of my needs as a concept artist and packages them in one small form factor device.

    It is a 2-in-1 convertible, but it is not Wacom powered. It uses standard MPP connectivity. I picked up a Surface Pen (1776) and it kinda works in Clip Studio... but it's unusably bad in Photoshop. I'm 100% new to this MPP stuff and I have no idea how to try and tweak functionality. I've been googling around for a couple days but haven't made much progress. The main issue is (of course) terrible line jitters but also the pressure curve behaves nonsensically. Like it'll initiate at 50% pressure then dip to a typical 0% to 100% curve.

    Thanks!
     
  2. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    Did you try using Lazy Nezumi on photoshop? CSP have great stabilization out of the box, photoshop not too much. I'm not sure what you could do with MPP though, their performance different depending on how dense the touch screen the manufacturer used. You could be out of luck if Asus cheap out on the touchscreen.

    Did Asus recommend any pen for this laptop? ( if they advertise this as Penabled, they should at least have a compatible pen in their store)
     
  3. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    I had a look around and found this...



    The comment section seems to indicate that the device is on a hardware level not the best for pen input. -Some of the solutions discussed involve finding different pens and altering the screen refresh rate to 120 Hz, but that they are not full measures for best outcomes.

    Sadly, the most reliable solution is to get a device which prioritizes pen input, using Wacom EMR. The new Surface Laptop Studio also seems to offer a non-Wacom pen solution, (the Slim Pen 2) which people are quite happy with.

    Not the most encouraging advice, I'm afraid, but there it is.

    I wish you the best in getting your Asus to peek pen efficiency!
     
  4. chucklepunch

    chucklepunch Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Yes, CSP has lazy Nezumi "under the hood" of their brush engine, I believe. The performance is identical using smoothing in CSP vs Lazy Nezumi in Photoshop. It fixes up the jitter fairly well... But it does not fix the initial pressure issue. So the pen still starts at about 50% pressure at the beginning of strokes. Of course Lazy Nezumi is also only for brushes and erasers. I use lasso constantly and it's still full jitter mode.

    The panel is good- 100% srgb coverage, 120hz, 400 nits. But it looks like the MPP implementation is bad. Asus do have their own pen but it's been universally hailed as awful ha. I have a Raphael 520 coming today to try as an alternative. Otherwise will probably just return it.

    Thanks for your time and trying to help
     
  5. chucklepunch

    chucklepunch Pen Pal - Newbie

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    You got that right ha. I can manage with AES. I've used several Lenovo AES devices and have no problem at all. I actually have a Yoga C940 right now as well, as I'm testing laptops for a youtube video. There's no comparison between the two. The Yoga slaughters the Asus for pen input. However, the Asus slaughters the Yoga for portability but, more importantly, battery life and Blender performance are both over 2x better.

    I saw that video as well, and their experience is definitely better than mine. So I may try his pen too, just in case! Though I suspect it's the panel itself and I'm not really willing to play the "RMA and pray" game

    Thanks for your help ✌️✌️
     
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  6. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    In Brad's newest review, he tried the Slim Pen 2 on the SP7 and it looked disastrous. See at 8:42

    The improvement in MPP Surface Laptop Studio seem to be in both the Pen and the touch digitizer. I doubt MS would provide Asus their newest and greatest MPP panel. it would probably be at Surface Go level at best, so I didn't recommend the Slim Pen.

    Unfortunately, if the problem is on the hardware level, there's not much you can do with IAF and initial pressure level. There could also be mismatch between different MPP pen manufacturers. The best pen would be a pen specifically designed for this device and throughoutly tested, and if that's not available, your only option would be trying your luck with more pens.
     
  7. Azzart

    Azzart Late night illustrator Senior Member

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    I would give the Renaisser pen a try, it's cheap and it should work a little better than the standard Surface pen.
    https://renaisser.com/products/renaisser-raphael-520c-usb-c-surface-stylus

    Also, remember That Lazy Nezumi can also control and smooth the pressure curve which is something I always found completely necessary when working in photoshop with a Surface device.
     
  8. chucklepunch

    chucklepunch Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Yep, I concur. I went ahead and ordered the Asus stylus just to make sure I covered my bases completely. Everything has a healthy return policy, so I can just keep what works *IF* anything works lol.

    This is why I haven't strayed from Lenovo over the years. I've had 4 Lenovo devices long-term and 1 that I'm testing now. Every single one has been awesome.
     
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  9. chucklepunch

    chucklepunch Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Yeah, I ordered the Raphael last week and it should be here today. I suspect it will perform similarly. However, if it eliminates the initial pressure activation issue (pen often starts at 50% pressure then drops to 0% and then enters a typical pressure curve) then I can make it work. Lazy Nezumi fixes jitters but it has been unable to fix the pressure activation. I'm used to zero stabilization with Photoshop nor 3rd party software- since I usually work on AES and EMR devices.

    Of course, nothing except a proper stylus fixes the issue when it comes to the selection tool. That's a dealbreaker for me, as I use the Lasso as much as the brush for some of my default workflows.
     
  10. Azzart

    Azzart Late night illustrator Senior Member

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    You mean you tweaked the pressure curve in Lazy Nezumi and nothing changed?
    Also, Lazy Nezumi stabilization as far as I can remember can be enabled/disable to any tool that "draws" in Photoshop. So it should work with the lasso tool too if you enable it for that tool.
     
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