MobileStudio Pro 16 refresh on the horizon

Discussion in 'Artists' started by Marty, May 15, 2019.

  1. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,067
    Likes Received:
    2,603
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Did the staff at least try to differentiate them to consumers? Maybe at least acknowledge that the screen sparkling/discoloration issue has been fixed?

    I don't really see how they're going to convince people to plunk down $3500 without some sort of re-assurance on improved QC and CS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
    neongolden likes this.
  2. MobileTechReview

    MobileTechReview Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    351
    Trophy Points:
    76
    On thing to note is that the display brightness uniformity feature is turned on at the factory. That makes the display considerably dimmer (as I noted in my review). Brad might have not turned off this feature because it's actually plenty bright for indoor (at lest home lighting) use.

    On a different topic, my guess is that Wacom didn't go with OLED because it consumes considerably more power when showing light colors or white, which means battery life would have suffered. Especially if you're a white canvas sort of person. Also OLEDs really have to be factory calibrated well or the colors are literally off the charts and hard to fix with a colorimeter after the fact. There are a few 2019 well-calibrated 15.6" OLED laptops on the market like the Asus ZenBook Pro Duo, and a lot of awfully calibrated ones. Having reviewed pretty much every 2019 15.6" OLED laptop on the market and high quality wide gamut IPS panels (including the XPS 15 wide gamut IPS), for professional art work, I'd go with the IPS for more natural whites and easier calibration. That Samsung OLED panel is consumer facing to wow folks when watching Netflix and visiting photo sharing sites.

     
    neongolden likes this.
  3. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,067
    Likes Received:
    2,603
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Many review sites also praised the Aero 15 OLED refresh with X-Rite Pantone certification:


    I'll agree that a lot of the 15" Samsung panels have wide-variance, even within the same laptop model. For example, the Alienware m15 and HP Spectre x360 OLED panels that other review sites received had extremely low deltaE scores compared to the units you got:

    (LaptopMag)
    [​IMG]

    (DigitalTrends)
    [​IMG]

    However, this is a $3500 machine from a digital art focused company; I think Wacom could put in the effort to QC the OLED panel like Gigabyte, instead of falling back to a very-mediocre (for the price) IPS screen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
    neongolden likes this.
  4. MobileTechReview

    MobileTechReview Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    351
    Trophy Points:
    76
    I really hate to say it, but I wouldn't trust Laptop Mag's display analyses, their figures are often off the chart high for color gamut, for example. They don't get the same results that many other reviewers do. Notebookcheck often differs (but the opposite, with unusually low gamut readings), but they also sometime receive different laptop panels, being in the EU vs US.

    The HP Spectre x360 display (Intel 8th gen we reviewed) is not calibrated, nor was the first gen Alienware m15 OLED, so there's pretty much no chance they have good color accuracy. Dell addressed that with the second gen AW m15 OLED that we reviewed more recently and it had much better color accuracy (perhaps you missed that review of ours).

    I am not defending Wacom when I say the following, just explaining some driving forces. OLED is still not usually the high end professional's first choice for color grading work. For example, Eizo and Bon $5,000+ monitors are 10 bit or 12 bit 99% Adobe RGB, 4K and IPS. You look at one, and your trained eyes says "that's really accurate color". There are a few extremely expensive Sony Pro OLED monitors that are priced so high that they're generally rentals. They are otherwise pretty rare in the professional space. Wacom's biggest customer base is comprised of customers like Disney, EA's studios, film studios and the like, where IPS and accurate and natural whites + non-crushed blacks play bigger than OLED. Samsung's 2019 15.6" OLED panel is 8 bit, BTW. It is intended for discerning and affluent consumers, not professionals.

    The problem is that a lot of smaller art/photography/design studios and artists of various kinds also buy Wacom products, and their price and feature expectations don't align as well there. That doesn't mean they couldn't do better or that their products are priced well for those of us who don't work for a big game house or movie studio. Their stuff is very expensive, and also very niche, which means low volume and higher resulting production costs (they don't have the economy of scale that Dell and HP do). There's more price analysis I could offer but I'd probably put you all to sleep LOL.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  5. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,067
    Likes Received:
    2,603
    Trophy Points:
    231
    I agree. There are absolutely top-notch IPS panels out there, I'm just disappointed that Wacom didn't use one of them. And if it was a choice between the current panel and the Aero 15 OLED panel, I'd pick Gigabyte's any day. (Maybe you could get the new Aero 15 in for a review and see if the Pantone certification improves the white point or crushed blacks.)

    I'll take your word for it not to trust some sites' deltaE measurements, but another contradicting piece of info is the bit-depth of the Samsung panel. Anandtech reported it was HDR10, which means it's supposed to 10-bit capable (8-bit+FRC):

    (Wikipedia)
    "HDR10, was announced on August 27, 2015, by the Consumer Technology Association and uses the wide-gamut Rec. 2020 color space, a bit depth of 10-bits, and the SMPTE ST 2084 (PQ) transfer function"

    Maybe you could ask Samsung for clarification?

    Actually, I would be totally interested if you did an in-depth episode comparing the best laptops for color-critical work. (Please go into all the details about all nitty-gritty display metrics you don't normally cover like uniformity, EOTF tracking, brightness/accuracy limits under different color spaces, etc. to your heart's content.)

    That would be awesome!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  6. MobileTechReview

    MobileTechReview Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    351
    Trophy Points:
    76
    HDR10 for PCs has turned into a murky thing, and it's not terribly worthwhile as a standard for Windows laptops. For example, 8 bit HDR10 is a thing and is the most common. It uses dithering 8 bit +FRC as you noted. That is not the same thing as a 10 bit display. It's color dithering to try to create all the colors a 10 bit display could create. HDR10 is intended mostly as a standard for playing movies (and can be applied to games). It is not a color space or working environment for content producers. Engadget actually has a very helpful article here: https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/27/hdr-setup-explainer/ .

    I've asked every laptop maker with the Samsung OLED 15.6" panel and Samsung themselves about why the panel always connects at 8 bit on these machines. No answer. The panel can't be true HDR (as we know it in TVs that can reach 1000 nits at local points) because of the relatively low brightness the Samsung panel is typically driven at- the lowest HDR400 standard requires a 400 nit display (actual 400 nit, not just whatever the laptop maker claims based on their best test sample). HDR 600 requires 600 nits- you see how that works? HDR700 is 700 nits and so on. HDR is in good part a standard based on how bright certain pixels or zones on the display can get. But again, HDR is a standard for consuming movie content. It's not relevant to Photoshop or Blender. Studios creating HDR content use much higher quality big format monitors to develop and proof that content.

    I have seen the OLED Aero and again, also the lovely ZenBook Pro Duo OLED that is also calibrated. Both are calibrated well enough, but not perfectly, such that user calibration with a colorimeter will get desirable results. I enjoy them very much. I love streaming Netflix on them. When I edit photos and video, I am mindful that the look is different from what most people consuming the content will see.Their whites are a little weird and they do crush the blacks.

    The HP Dream Color displays are superb. Dell's Precision (and even XPS 15) wide gamut, high brightness IPS 4K panels are superb. On that scale for accuracy and now uniformity, the MSP16 2nd Gen isn't bad at all. The Wacom's contrast is certainly lacking, and it's the etched glass doing that, in part. I personally really want higher contrast. Brightness could be better, but for controlled indoor use in professional settings (again, big studios), I suspect it's considered adequate. They know their business better than I do, and the challenges of adding the typically thicker EMR digitizer, protecting the vulnerable display (that giant tablet design yikes) and protecting the display from heat below it (CPU and GPU). I think they want to make an awesome display, and I don't know if it's technical limitations or instead a lack of PC/tablet engineering prowess that stops them from hitting the HP Dream Color level of goodness. I really don't think it's greed though.

    The HP Book X2 is a fine alternative with a fantastic Dream Color display, but limited Wacom EMR settings vs a Cintiq or MSP.
     
    YVerloc and neongolden like this.
  7. Marty

    Marty Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,067
    Likes Received:
    2,603
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Ah, that's disappointing. Still, I think it would be worthwhile to do video showcasing these display differences between the calibrated OLEDs vs the IPS screens in the XPS15 and Dreamcolor ZBX2, especially for the video pros and graphic artists making these big purchase decisions.

    It might also get OEMs to pay more attention to white uniformity and near-black EOTF tracking on future OLED revisions. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  8. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,520
    Likes Received:
    1,614
    Trophy Points:
    181
    The staff didn’t even know they had a MSP1 on the floor until I pointed it out. However given they look virtually indistinguishable from the MSP2.....it was clearly just a simple mistake.

    As far as any issues with the Screen (which I believe that screen issue is just Cintiq 16 Pros)....I didn’t ask them about it.....none of their demo units clearly had the issue.....nor do I think they would have been forthcoming on that topic.....provided they even knew the issue existed at all. Their Comic-Con/Demo staff isn’t always that knowledgeable from my experience.
     
    Marty likes this.
Loading...
Similar Threads - MobileStudio refresh horizon
  1. kruzilla
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    333

Share This Page