Discussion in 'Artists' started by Marty, May 15, 2019.
Coffee? LOL. Does it flicker?
I have a few other thoughts/questions for anyone who can weigh in:
-Do you think the engineers may have actually made an educated decision that wasn't motivated entirely by greed by opting for the IPS panel again? We don't know if OLED R&D fixed the blues starting to go bad after 1 year like people reported on the old Samsung Galaxy Book.
On the flipside, I guess we do know that OLED panels can withstand prolonged drawing, since I haven't heard anyone report yet the garbage that happened to me and some Cintiq Pro owners. Then again I believe I am just now remembering that OLED was always supposed to be more somewhat more durable than LCD against pressure from peoples' hands/pens, or against impacts in general (LCD has virtually no resistance against this lol).
I also thought maybe they determined that a matte finish mostly nullifies the perks of an OLED, though I can't imagine that really being true.
You know, in addition to the extra ~150 nits of brightness, it has 50 extra points on its contrast ratio (850:1 vs 800:1). I just wonder if that could combine with the new brightness uniformity feature to provide a much more pleasant experience, because to be honest with you, the MSP's screen was never much of a joy for me to be looking into for any prolonged period. I started to figure out towards the end that I was being too conservative on the brightness (to try to save battery and backlight, a fool's errand). If I just played it greedy and toggled it on high most of the time, it was better, but that thing was still jank for the price, whether it had Adobe RGB in the 90th percentile or not.
I'm not trying to be a jerk but it seems to me that MobileTechReview also wasn't able to get as down and dirty as I'd like. Most of it wasn't their fault as it was a pre-release unit that wouldn't let her dial the brightness up, so she could only speculate, but god damn if that screen didn't look identical in the video. I need to rewatch but I don't think she mentioned if there was any reduction at all in the ripple effect, which might go a ways towards seeing if they fixed this problem with the LCD being squeezed too tightly under the glass and therefore having problems later on.
You know the Vaio Z Canvas had the same optical bonding thing going on but I recall that screen feeling way more durable than the MSP's. I will admit I don't think I was ever able to put quite as much pressure on it because it didn't have as good of a stand, and I rarely ever improvised a stand with fixed positions, but I'm still pretty sure it never rippled as much and would not have had this problem if I'd been able to keep using it past ~1year4months when its battery swole, likely because I had it on nearly 24 hours a day and often plugged in.
Anyway, don't think I will be a returning customer, but as always I got to wait and see what else is available by the time January rolls around so I can get back into the digital art fray.
Actually, I think the Z Canvas used a slightly different style of optical bonding with a special resin (with equalized refractive index to the glass) and hence was thicker than most optically-bonded cover layers:
One thing you're absolutely right about though, is the screen/glass durability on the Z Canvas.
I don't recall too many people being put-off by the screen ripple on other tablets like Surface Pros, but I remember testing out the SP3, and it might as well have just been covered in a thin layer of plastic compared to the feeling of the ZC.
I'm pushing down now (probably 5x times harder than I would ever draw) with hard-nibbed pen on the Canvas with only the faintest shadow of a ripple. I can't even get it to ripple with my finger.
(Though it might not be a fair comparison, because VAIO really went to almost absurd lengths to guarantee the durability. Remember these bend, drop, and scratch test videos? There's no way the MSP is matching that.)
I actually wish more tablet manufacturers would pay that kind of attention to the glass surface for drawing.
I think durability against physical pressure has more to do with the cover glass structure (like VAIO's excellent solution above), but OLEDs do have a great degree of heat resistance.
Check out JerryRigEverything's lighter test @9:40:
Not only do they last impressively long under heat, they are able recover from the heat discoloration.
One thing I forgot to mention in my last post was that the sparkling/discoloration on the Cintiq Pros, has as much to do with heat as pressure, since Wacom displays run notoriously hot (have fans, etc.). If you now combine that with a thin cover glass and pressure from the hand against a tight frame, you have a recipe for permanent liquid crystal damage.
You might want to check out Brad Colbow's review for a bit more perspective on the screen:
He basically opens by saying that the screen is a bit too dim for his liking (he had dial up the screen to max brightness just to work indoors during the day).
So it's likely the final version doesn't differ much from the pre-release version Lisa measured:
i.e. ~200nits @ 75% brightness or about 250nits max. From the panel ID, it seems to be a custom panel.
The one hope is that Wacom changed out the panel (to a lower spec one compared to the Cintiq Pro 16), to deal with the discoloration problem. Otherwise, I can't really fathom why they chose such a lackluster IPS panel.
Oh one last thing is, Brad mentions @9:50 that the screen still gets hot ...so let's hope Wacom really did improve that screen durability.
I just had to mention it appears to now be available on B&H Photo if anyone wants to be an additional guinea pig.
It's sort of curious that it still isn't available on Wacom's own store. Maybe they're doing their partner a favor from, I don't know, the days when they were selling their stand for $50 while B&H was forced to sell for $100. Who knows. Anyway, I couldn't buy it from there right now even if I was enthusiastic about it because I would need to first try to see if I'd qualify for financing on Wacom's site this time around, to see if I could get the "free" 3 year warranty.
I still don't think think there is any way I can get behind this unit. I'm too hung up over it not having a newer screen type than LCD for being north of $3000. There is going to have to be an amazing rationalization leaked from the design team or something.
But on the flip side, I'm not enduring the wait as well as I'd hoped. I'm suffering from serious digital art withdrawal. There has also been news about HP downsizing, though it seemed to pertain primarily to their printer business(?). I'm very concerned higher management could have shut down the zbook X2 just like what happened with Vaio.
Something about none of the new Surface Line having OLED except maybe the 2020 Neo has also "knocked the wind out of me" in terms of being able to enthusiastically wait.
In other news, it sounds like UC Logic has made serious strides; they can at least claim 8k levels of sensitivity lol. How funny would it be if the next Zbook used a different pen tech but basically came away just as good or better?
Well, I'll be a NYCC tommorow, I'm pretty sure they'll have the MSP2 on demo. However....given the changes are just internal....I really can't imagine the experience would be any different from using the MSP1. And as far as screen color/quality/brightness.....Comic Con is worst possible venue to gauge those at. The overhead lighting in the Javits center is not conductive at all for dim screens like the ones Wacom uses.
Incidentally....I initially had the Cintiq Companion 2.....and the screen crapped out a month after the warrenty was up. So I barely had that device for little more then a year. When the MSP1 hit (suspiciously around the same).....I was extremely hesitant, but given the limited alternate options at the time.....I very uneasily plunked down. I was all set to get the 3 year warranty deal.....but it required Financing and I didn't want to do that......so I bought it with no extra protection.....almost certain it was gonna be a mistake and something would go wrong like with my CC2, and I was like 95% certain I would have regretted that purchase.
So naturally..........that was 3 years ago......and its still running fine (mostly).....If I were to get the MSP2.....given my luck with the MSP1....I'd take that gamble again. But I also did just buy a Zbook x2....so....I won't be taking that gamble anytime soon.....but prehaps my story can give you some comfort if you chose to go in for it.
You know the MSP13 seemed to have a very solid run, like it was everything the product should be, QA wise. I seriously heard part of this is bc it did not use nVidia's M-series chips. Not only did it's screen have higher RGB, but I haven't read any incidences of discolored pixels.
You know it also occurred to me that the MSP13v2 could have OLED. You'd think it would be a cannibalistic marketing move, but I'm just not convinced anymore that they see it that way. It could be a matter of subversively telling photographers and certain types of visual technicians to get the 16, and all illustrators to go 13, and too bad about the extra 2".
It looks like maybe B&H was in error. It's back to being unavailable and this time with no release date (previously Nov. 15).
Anyway yeah, please get back with us as soon as you can @darkmagistric after your comic-con visit.
well....just got back from Comic Con.....from user end scenario.....the new Mobile Studio Pro 2 is indeed no different from the MSP 1
The only way you can even tell the difference between the models is either looking at the CPU designation under system settings.......or by having the Access hatch on the back.......aside from that it’s literally the same experience in every way. The Wacom booth even had a MSP1 in among the MSP2’s....and the staff mixed them up as well. The screen quality, drawing performance, etc....everything is exact to the first generation. Even the USB-C ports....which now have a thunderbolt 3 port.....dock not have be little thunderbolt symbol near the port. And as I kind of already knew...the lighting from Comic-Con made it near impossible to verify the color quality or brightness of the screen.
At least with the Mobile Studios anyway.....
because holy crud....that new Cintiq (non-pro) 22 inch has one of the ugliest screens I’ve ever seen attached to pen system......the 16 non pro isn’t exactly great either.....but stretching that 1920x1080 resolution to a 22 inch size device just looks downright hideous. Like my old 21ux is still superior in nearly every way,
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