London event

Discussion in 'Microsoft' started by Kumabjorn, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 Editor-in-Chief of TechAndTiny Senior Member

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    Unless I am catching a whiff of sarcasm, that base model is far better than the 64 GB eMMC, Core M model that the Galaxy Book 10 has. It is an option just like the regular Surface Pro i5. There is a 256 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM i5 model as well listed at that site, which a family member will be incredibly excited to here about.

    I am without words and do not agree with you jhoff80 on basically all of the areas you just listed, including the Xbox One and and HoloLens which I will tackle here and now.

    First of all, Xbox One is in a position to snatch the PS4 Pro’s top spot away from it. It is selling out during each preorder time at rates far beyond the expectations of critics and fans alike, keeping a pace that is unprecedented for an Xbox launch. To put it succinctly, its preorder sales have surpassed any previous Xbox system—including the Xbox mighty 360—to date: ‘nuff said. It also has hardware that is far faster—over 6 teraflops of performance—and far easier to optimize for—a single GPU rather than the PS4 Pro’s slower dual GPU solution. Developers just don’t like multi-GPU solutions like SLI and Crossfire: thanks to latency and timing, multiple GPUs are incredibly hard to achieve predictable, stable performance when compared with a single GPU with equal theoretical peak performance. The Xbox One X has far and away higher peak theoretical performance than the PS4 Pro, anyways, and this margin is certainly even larger in the real world when the limitations of dual GPUs come into play. So this will be easier for devs to work with and the enthusiasm and energy in early sales is showing a bright future for the Xbox product family for immediate future.

    HoloLens was built to incentivize PC manufacturers to design and sell AR products, and it has succeeded in its goal: HP, Dell and Lenovo Windows Mixed Reality headsets are all on track to be on sale by the end of this year at around $300. As far as ARkit being a “threat” to all of this, thanks for the laugh because its current state is laughably bad and it is painfully awful using these apps. I have tried a few of the ARkit apps, including Houzz and Gipfy World, and let’s just say they have a very long way to go before they’re anywhere close to being ready. They are often essentially pasting a stationary static image over moving scene so the tracking is all over the place or not even following at all, and more often than not the object doesn’t orient properly, either. This assortment of first generation cheesy “AR” apps strangely remind me of the alpha or proof of concept programs I saw at Disney World well over a decade ago. Heck, even the rudamentary research AR systems I played with at my university are far more accurate. ARkit is just an awful mishmash of rushed application libraries that probably won’t be worth looking at until iOS 12 next year. Besides the Apple Watch 3 issues and more delays to the iPhone X, no wonder Apple stock is plummeting. All considered, if the Windows Mixed Reality headsets with actual functional tracking hold up as well as they have been in the demos, Microsoft has this in the bag.

    Haters gonna hate, but Nadella has brought a unique blend of bold, smart, grounded leadership that is catching the eye of the corporate and consumer world alike. Profits and stocks have surged for the last five years. Can any of us have even imagined a Surface Book, Surface Studio, or Surface Laptop five years ago? All this and more came with Nadella as CEO.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  2. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    Only partly sarcasm - I just do not see any justification for a core i5 based tablet having only 4gb ram and 128gb ssd - that's on par with the stupid tricks of Apple with their 16gb iPhones they sold for years after their own research showed it was not enough for most uses. They are still doing it today with the 64gb iPhone 8 and iPhone X - when you are spending that much, for $150 who's not going to buy the 256gb version - it's merely a way to say "see, it was only $999 base price - not over a $1000 as predicted."
     
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  3. sonichedgehog360

    sonichedgehog360 Editor-in-Chief of TechAndTiny Senior Member

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    That’s true, except we are talking about two different things: a $999 phone that has far less physical material, that has a smaller battery and that has a screen that is lower resolution than most competing phones within the last few years; and a tablet that has far more physical material, that has a larger battery, and that has a high density screen that competitors have just began to match it in price and density. The Surface Pro is more than sufficient with a 128 GB SSD and 4 GB RAM for most people. Even then there is always the Micro SD card slot which Apple clearly doesn’t have. Apples to oranges... or Surfaces? I found the Galaxy Book 10 ridiculous because its base model used eMMC, a 1920x1280 display, and just one physical port for everything (charging, projecting and data). None of these are problems plaguing the Surface, and many lower priced Windows tablets have similar compromises in one way or another (most often weight and size, battery life, capacity, pen technology, screen resolution, etc.) to achieve their lower price points. For those who need more, there are the higher capacity models, so it is not like anyone has to purchase the base model. Just pretend that your base model is instead the model that is your minimum capacity and start from there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  4. jhoff80

    jhoff80 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Xbox One has sold an estimated 30 million. PS4 has sold an estimated 65 million. Sure, the One X is more powerful than the PS4 Pro, but that isn't going to be any sort of meaningful dent. All of that stuff about the One X is good and all, but the majority of the market isn't in the One X and the Pro, but the lower-end baseline products. (And the baseline experience on Xbox One is abysmally slow, but that's a whole other rant. Gee - who would have thought that removing resources from the OS to desperately try to match up with PS4 at launch would make the OS and UI itself painful to use? ;)) Overall though, the One X will hopefully be a good product released under Nadella's watch, but it's also just an evolution of where the market was already going, with PS4 and Xbox One being a PC-light.

    With Hololens, there's a few things here. First is that despite Microsoft's attempts to blur the lines and claim it's all the same, AR & VR are not at all the same thing. HP, Dell, and Lenovo's headsets are just low-end VR. They share zero technology in common with Hololens. They use accelerometers and an RGB camera for motion tracking, and none of the depth sensing technology that is in Hololens. But also, Hololens didn't spur any of them. Samsung, Oculus, and Steam/HTC did. VR is the hot new thing and Windows OEMs want a piece of the pie. That'd have happened without Hololens ever existing.

    Hololens (which mostly was developed under Ballmer, if we're keeping track ;) ) seems like it was revolutionary when it was first revealed. But that was nearly three years ago, and nothing has come of it for consumers. Most of us haven't tried it. They didn't release a second generation (rumors are that they skipped gen 2 and are working on gen 3 for 2019). And stuff like Pokemon Go and ARkit are actual real-world things people can try. Of course it's not in the ballpark of Hololens. But the popularity of Pokemon Go (which had zero environmental awareness and a completely rudimentary example of AR) shows that people just don't care. And in all honesty, people aren't going to want to use headsets. You hear that even with passive 3D glasses (which are no more than optical filters) at movie theaters even. The fact that ARkit is on a device people already have is what will end up mattering. On top of that, Apple has the backing of millions of developers who already have iPhones. I'd bet money that the number of Hololens dev units sold is at most only in the tens of thousands. Sure, I'm sure Hololens is better, but at this point, Microsoft is repeating the cycle of Tablet PC and Windows Mobile: early to market and then dropped off the map. Though to be honest, Peter Bright at Ars probably puts it all better than I can: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...d-in-ar-now-its-at-risk-of-being-left-behind/

    As for imagining the product releases... yes I'm sure almost everybody was imagining a pure Surface Laptop pretty much from the day the first Surface was released. People have been begging for that from Microsoft for years. :D But Microsoft has also been ridiculously slow to refresh any of these products under Nadella and the rumors have been that the hardware team wasn't getting enough support to move faster (though I admit to being unable to find the article now, I think it was Thurrott who originally posted about that).

    Ballmer definitely had his problems. He completely and totally missed the boat on mobile. And the competitive environment underneath him (insert that famous org chart with everyone pointing guns at each other) wasn't wise. But I stand by my points on Nadella. The consumer market isn't his focus, and the biggest change he made was laying off the testing department and outsourcing it to Windows Insiders... which makes them a ton of money, but we're all suffering through buggy Windows releases because of it. It's all great short-term thinking, but I think it's hurting them (and more importantly, those of us who actually use Windows products) in the long run.

    ...Also, give Apple crap all you want for the whole Watch thing, but I seem to remember a Microsoft Band (2) where they couldn't even handle the easy part of it, the rubber band itself. ;)
     
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  5. soh5

    soh5 Surface or Bust Senior Member

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    I don't even get the hype behind how the iPhone X has facial recognition unlock. Windows Hello has been a thing for a long time and works reliably. Even on the 950 and 950XL.

    At this point there's so little to innovate within the cell phone sector that you have niche gimmicks being packaged as part of a new phone.

    I don't need all these features. I need reliable LTE, voice, a good camera, and an app ecosystem that isn't complete garbage.

    Just really disappointed that Apple is charging 1k for a phone that doesn't even take notes like the note 8...



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. jhoff80

    jhoff80 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    For what it's worth, the 950 and 950XL don't have facial recognition, but instead an iris scanner. While Windows Hello supports facial recognition on PC, true depth-based facial recognition (not Android's old crappy camera thing from years and years ago) was never put in phones until the iPhone X. But either way, you're better off with a fingerprint reader (in my opinion).
     
  7. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    Sonic - you KNOW that base model is going to be around $1200 (because it has LTE) with 256gb pushing $1500 - how do you square that with the $1699 Acer Switch 7, even without it having LTE?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  8. soh5

    soh5 Surface or Bust Senior Member

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    Kinda freaky how cell phones are now headed towards mid range laptop prices.

    How can the average consumer justify those prices? Oh right, because Sally has the iPhone, it's not cool to be without one.

    My entire campus is littered with apple logos, it's pretty troubling that a phone is now the same price as a surface pro.

    I feel like we have gone from making technology more accessible to less. At least that is the perception. I understand there are cheap phones out there but it's just kinda sad we are approaching an arms race in the cell industry, with not much new innovation happening.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  9. metalsiren

    metalsiren Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Let’s all remember competition is a good thing


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  10. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Considering how many specs they are starting to share with premium laptops, it seemed only a matter of time. I mean we have phones with 6GB of Ram and 128GB-256GB Storage options.....while there are still plenty of laptops and tablets with 4GB and 64GB of Storage on the market still deemed as "Acceptable".
     
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