Lenovo Thinkpad 10 Tablet Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Lenovo (IBM)' started by Bloody Nokia Adept, Apr 8, 2014.

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  1. Rebeljuice

    Rebeljuice Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I think RT on a tablet with Office and a digitiser is the way forward for Windows on tablets. Full blown Windows should be for the 2 in 1s and convertables, laptops and desktops.

    Someone stated above that the general consumer doesnt want to have to deal with driver and bios updates, antivirus, restarts and general "PC" maintenance on a tablet. They just want something out of the box that works. RT does this. Whether it really takes off and OEMs pick up the baton again is another story. It never was in Microsofts plans to give away a free small screen Windows. they expected RT to take the world by storm. It never happened that way because the marketing behind it sucked. It should never have been called Windows RT in the first place and should have instead had its own naming convention seperate from the Windows sphere. But because the general consumer did not not understand RT, MS are now pushing a free full blown OS onto small Atom devices. This is going to result in cheaper small screen tablets, but the same issues of build quality will continue to plague them. Instead of a $300 tablet with problems we will get $150 tablets with the same problems.

    I really hope an OEM or two picks up RT again and gives it another go. Office for touch is around the corner and the app store isnt as crap as it used to be. Plus, with the merging of Windows Phone, the app store will look pretty healthy going forward.

    Currently, all I see in the world of Windows tablets is either over priced hardware plagued with issues (both in build and supply) or bottom of the line cheap plastic hardware plagued with issues (both in build and supply). There are exceptions of course, but the general picture doesnt look great. People wonder why the iPad does so well for what it is and does, and the only thing I can think of is that it is well made, works out of the box and does exactly what it says on the tin.

    This new TP10 will probably be well built, but I bet it will have a gazillion updates, bios revisions, software patches and other issues to deal with out of the box.
     
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  2. ziphnor

    ziphnor Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Interesting. I thought RT was a complete failure actually and was pretty much dying. I don't know anyone who owns a non-pro Surface at all and I have never seen one when traveling on public transport or similar (plenty of iPads though), but that might be specific to Denmark of course.

    Well that's not quite true, one of my colleagues at work was doing some gadget shopping while in the US and picked up a surface along with an iPad, because he thought the guys in the MS store looked sad :) He never used it for anything though. At the time I was very interested in the surface, but after seeing the 16:9 display I gave up on it.

    I also don't see why people would want to buy a Windows RT tablet-only device over say an Android or iOS device. Even though the app selection might be improving, it is still lagging [far/B] behind. Windows RT also still has the desktop and the split between that and the Modern UI is very confusing to casual users. That you can run office on the desktop also seems desperate to me. Also, if windows RT is anything like full windows, some of the settings screens will still send you to the desktop which is not acceptable.

    That being said I am not sure that going forward there will necessarily be such a split between 2-in-1/convertible/pure tablet. For most people a tablet with an attachable keyboard dock or similar can do everything they need. The desktop is already pretty much dead to many casual users, and I think the tablets will "kill" off many uses of a laptop over time. I also think that it is in this area that Windows has a much stronger position. Neither android or iOS are particular productive even with an attached keyboard/mouse. It is also in this scenario that access to Office starts making sense. The desktop duality is also more acceptable here, since the device itself is used in two different modes.

    However I don't really see much room for Windows RT in that space (for now at least). With bay trails rolling out, full Windows is easily accessible without paying a penalty in battery life or weight. Why would I want Windows RT when I can get full Windows?

    I think a better strategy would be to push the 2-in-1 devices with full windows hard, with a lot of those in the market, there would also be a great interest in making modern UI apps for them, and over time the rest of window might become redundant in which case Windows RT would stand a better chance.

    Windows 8 tablet sales show real life; Windows RT tablets hit rock bottom | Computerworld Blogs
     
  3. spinedoc77

    spinedoc77 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Do you have a breakdown of that 2 billion between surface RT/2 and surface Pro 1/2? I'd be curious to see which way it slants. Also are you saying that out of every single 8/rt device out there, desktop, laptop, workstation, etc 17% of them are RT based? Can you link me your sources, I'm interested in reading more.

    I still think RT is a dumbification of Windows, it has very few advantages and even those are very specific for very specific users. Windows is trying to compete in the dumb tablet market against the juggernauts iOS and Android. I'm not saying they might not succeed, MS will throw money at it until they may just do that. It's just a shame to see such a dumbification, and for no good reason, RT devices are not thinner, they don't have more battery life, they are not more powerful at what they do, they are not lighter, etc.

    Anyhoo feel free to PM me, I didn't mean to derail this thread so much.
     
  4. spinedoc77

    spinedoc77 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    There is no real reason. What I'm hoping will happen is that the surface Pro will get thinner/lighter, have better battery life and be a bit cheaper. Then it will probably supplant the Atom tablets out there and MS will become a true devices company in that sense, like Apple. If RT seems dead today, when the Pro can approach it's form factor and battery life then it will really be dead. Especially if manufacturers like Lenovo overprice their Atom tablets. If I'm going to pay $915 for a Lenovo Atom tablet, you can be sure that I will be at least considering a surface Pro for close to the same price, now if next year the Pro 3 has improved form factor and battery life and MS marketing behind it, no contest.
     
  5. gcoupe

    gcoupe Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    @jnjroach - can you spin this discussion off into a separate thread somewhere? It's interesting, but it is rather derailing the original thread.

    And here's my 2 cents worth of derailment. Whilst I bought a TPT2 instead of a Surface (2), it was simply because I needed to run LiveWriter on my tablet. If it hadn't have been for that, I would have gone with a Surface. I've recently advised a non-tech savvy neighbour on tablet choice. I offered her the choice between the Dell Venue Pro or a Surface 2. She went for the Surface 2 - and she is absolutely delighted by it, and has ditched her ancient laptop.
     
  6. jnjroach

    jnjroach Technology Strategist Super Moderator

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  7. spinedoc77

    spinedoc77 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Very interesting stuff, thanks for the link. This is going to be an interesting year, it seems like MS is hitting it hard at 3 angles. They continue to improve the Pro. They let the manufacturers release Atom versions. They push RT at the cheaper end.

    Getting back to the thread, I've really been thinking of a Surface Pro 2 now since I've seen how jacked up Lenovo's prices are going to be.
     
  8. JoeS

    JoeS I'm all ears Senior Member

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    I thought spine docs made lotsa money! :)
     
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  9. dstrauss

    dstrauss Comic Relief Senior Member

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    I almost always agree with you doc, but I couldn't let this one blow by. With the addition of Office for iPad, I'm finding the iPad Air to be a great tablet experience, and the depth and quality of Apps on iOS anything but "dumbed down." In fact, I like OneNote on iPad better than OneNote MX EXCEPT for the lack of ink support. For that, I've switched to UPad as note taker of choice.

    WHY? Because I'm sick and tired of waiting on folks like Lenovo and Microsoft to release the 10 and Surface Mini, and especially mad at Lenovo to see that the 10, which should have been a TPT3, fails to continue the pen silo! Idiocy - and no, if you want a full time larger pen that's great, but DO NOT ABANDON THE EVER-PRESENT STICK.

    For too long I've bought the "iPad is a toy" and "iPad is only good for consumption" mantra that I myself have spouted. That is simply not true. Other than the Surface and Surface Pro, NO OEM makes a tablet with the build quality and aesthetics of the iPad. Word and Excel on the iPad are a much better experience than the full 2013 versions on the tiny Windows tablet screens. 4:3 is far superior for productivity to 16:9, and head and shoulders better for surfing and media consumption. For my profession, the breadth and quality of legal focused software is amazing, and I find services like Westlaw Next, Lexis, Blacks Law Dictionary, Fastcase, Kindle Reader, and Nook Reader SUPERIOR to their counterparts or browser alternatives on Windows or Android. There are a number of great PDF reader/annotation programs (iAnnotate, PDF Expert, Goodreader) that I find better than Adobe or PDF Converter for reading and annotation (no substitutes however for Acrobat XI for PDF manipulation).

    So, I have "lost" my trusted ink solution in OneNote, but the overall tablet experience is so much better on the iPad that I have been hooked. Thank you Mr. Nadella for working with Mr. Ballmer to get us Word and Excel on the iPad; hopefully you will find a way to support rudimentary inking in OneNote.

    I'm not saying the rumored (Unicorn) Surface Mini won't turn my eye, but I no longer lust for a Windows tablet, and I never thought I would say that. Watching all of the suffering on the Asus forum only re-confirms my opinion that superior quality trumps all other virtues in tablet ownership - you have to know that it will do everything you expect it to do every time you turn it on, and the battery won't be flagging the whole time you thought it was sleeping...the iPad Air is doing that for me...

    PS - sorry for contributing to the hijacking of this thread...we will now return to our original programming...

    outerlimits.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  10. spinedoc77

    spinedoc77 Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    Wait, but you dumbified your experience by using an ipad with no digitizer or stylus ability. How can you even compare oneNote on a device with no digitizer!?!? The ipad is the ultimate dumbification IMO, but I will reserve that judgement until I try out Office on it. Keep in mind that MS is very close to releasing their Metro version of Office (which works against my own RT arguments) and I'll bet that it will blow away the ipad version. It's MS bread and butter and I can't see them not saving the best for themselves.

    But you are right, if the tools fit what you do then it's a good thing. My tools just happen to live mostly in the legacy/desktop world of Windows so I am probably more judgmental and belligerent than I have a right to be in terms of empathizing with others needs.

    It's all good, in the end this type of competition got us these incredible devices and the choice to choose in between them. Without the ipad I'd still be using a 3lb, 2" thick windows tablet with 1 1/2 hours battery life. Now I just wish Lenovo would make itself aware of some of this competition.

    To keep on topic though, and since you bring up the stylus... I bought a Dell Venue 11 Pro for $321, but my fear is that synaptics digitizer/pen that's getting bad reviews. I will also miss the ability to use my Note 3 pen which works on my TPT2. I'm definitely VERY bummed at Lenovo as I've loyally and patiently waited for a long time to give them my money. I will miss the wacom for sure.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
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