Lenovo stealth launches new Ryzen 4000U Flex 5 14" at Amazon and Best Buy

Discussion in 'Lenovo (IBM)' started by Shogmaster, Jun 1, 2020.

  1. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sounds like out of sync pen can make it even worse, but the grid density sets how small the wobble can be. No matter how well synched the pen is, it can't go beyond the density of the grid.
     
  2. DRTigerlilly

    DRTigerlilly Tablet Lead Mod (Retired) Super Moderator

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    wow $600 :eek:

    if only it was EMR tho!

    But that's pretty impressive
     
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  3. jedah

    jedah Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Thanks. This is helpful. I think I can get by if "medium" speed (maybe 1"/1s) was jitter free. Have you messed w/ stabilization on CSP before? It didn't help on my Wacom Bamboo Ink b/c the wobble was so bad. The jitter on your line doesn't look too severe, and I wonder if CSP's stabilization can carry it the rest of the way.
     
  4. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    IIRC that Brush I used has default stabilization setting of 6. Cranking that higher will help with any wobble that your hands may cause, but I doubt it will overcome wobble caused by coarseness of the grid.

    I can try it later though.
     
  5. ATIVQ

    ATIVQ V⅁O⅄ Senior Member

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    If the hardware/firmware/whatever interpolates the pen position correctly between the grid lines, you get an accurate position. EMR grid is very wide (a centimeter between grid lines) but the pen position is interpreted accurately.

    In particular, if you hold the pen upright, the digitizer is much more successful at interpolating the pen position. This is definitely a solved problem with current hardware, but Wacom and Microsoft just don't bother fixing it the same way Wacom dilly-dallied with EMR edge accuracy for decades.

    This is the Wacom Bamboo Ink on a Yoga 720 AES 1.0 digitizer. Using an AES 1.0 pen gives even better results, with very little wobble when tilted and nearly no discernible wobble when upright. Mind that this is freehand, no ruler.
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well with EMR, Wacom always leveraged the wide physical resonance range of the electro magnet to interpolate the position of the pen coil. It's not even trying to find the pen tip. It's just estimating the tip position by the coil resonance strength (that's why tilting made such difference to tip position) by averaging signals across the grid. These days, Wacom moved the coil closer to the tip to minimize the cursor drift from tilt (drift not wobble).

    AFAIK, there isn't too much physical difference between Wacom EMR consumer grid (~500 lines per inch) vs their professional EMR grid (~5000 lines per inch) and it's mostly done through software interpolation (The grid as you've seen is obviously much wider than that). So it's not good to compare EMR with projected capacitive dual role pens where physical touch down of the conductive pen tip is needed on the grid to locate it properly (thus hovering sucks compared to EMR).

    And with the pro cap grids, some of them are coarse enough to see in super bright sun light as dot array. I tried to take pictures of the grid but can't get it done with my phone cameras. But you can certainly see it being much bigger than 1mm apart in many cases. In the case of my HP Envy 17T, it looked more like 2~3mm apart (which matches the diagonal wobble seen on that device).
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
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  7. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Some new realizations:

    1. Stabilization setting DOES make a difference for diagonal wobble in CSP.
    [​IMG]

    2. I was wrong about R5 4500U vs i7 8550U performance difference in CSP. CSP brushes are mostly apparently very single threaded and clock speed dependent. The video I made earlier showing big difference in 2000 pixel Color Pencil brush, even though I made sure was both using max performance slider via battery icon in taskbar for both machines, is in fact about the same between the two machines IF YOU MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE BOTH PLUGGED IN TO AC. Apparently in new version of Win10, "max Performance" between on batteries and on AC are TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS! *smacks forehead* Thanks MS!

    3. I RE-realized something I learned long time ago: Wacom AES is MUCH MORE CPU dependent on performance than Wacom EMR. Perhaps this is where MPP also has advantage over AES now days with Pixelsense accelerator (not sure). But say with 50 pixel wide chalk brush in CSP, i7 8550U using batteries on Sammy N9P still gives you buttery smooth pen action even when you go nuts with the speed of the drawing. But with the R5 4500U in the Flex 5, you just don't get similar buttery pen action until you plug in the unit so the 4500U can go at max clock speed. Is it possible that perhaps the RX540 in the N9P is giving advantage over the built in Vega 6 in the 4600U for the Flex 5? I don't know... But my gut feeling says that with AES, Wacom cheaped out and are passing off all the pen calculations to the host computer's CPU while the N9P's EMR has dedicated ASIC for pen calculations (or accelerator if you will). The reason I say this is because I remember even the potato of the CPU in the Asus Vivotab Note 8 still gave me buttery smooth pen action in CSP with its EMR digitizer and pen, WAY out performing MPP pen performance in Surface 3 (with much faster CPU than Note 8) I had at the time.
     
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  8. crazycat

    crazycat Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I wouldn't be so sure about it. I have both the Asus Vivotab Note (2GB Ram, Bay Trail, 32 bit Windows) and its EMR performance win hand down compared to the Jumper Ezpad 5Se ( 4GB Ram, Cherry Trail, Windows 10 64 bit, also EMR ). Despite having newer chip with double the RAM, pen perform really sluggish, and on some drawing app, lines even come out zigzag. it might have more to do with 64bit Windows being power hungry on Atom chip so Windows 32bit +2GB RAM actually run better on Atom system.

    Your speculation when compared the Sammy N9P and Lenovo Flex might be true though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  9. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Pen Pro - Senior Member Senior Member

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    Let me ask if that Jumper EZpad had the Wacom Feel driver installed on it? 'Cause zig zag and stuff sounds like the EMR digitizer wasn't properly communicating with the pen and I doubt that's Windows 32 v 64 issue... Or maybe the digitizer firmware was bad.
     
  10. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    It’s not just the Jumper EZpad, I had the 1st gen Thinkpad Tablet 10, that had Baytrail Atom, EMR, 4GB, 64-bit Windows, and the Feel Driver installed....The weaker Asus Note more or less drew circles around it.
     
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