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Jaja Pressure Sensitive Stylus

Discussion in 'Apple/iOS' started by m_hope, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. m_hope

    m_hope Pen Pal - Newbie

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    So, among my illustrator friends there has been talk about this Kickstarter project that is developing a pressure-sensitive stylus for the iPad:
    jaja :: Worlds First Pressure Sensitive Stylus for iPad by Jon Atherton — Kickstarter

    I am not an iPad owner, as I swore I wouldn't buy one until someone offered a decent pressure-sensitive stylus for the platform, but if this pans out (i.e., gets Alias/Autodesk app support for its functionality) I may finally pony up for the slate.

    They're making some enticing promises: 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity, long battery life, out-of-the-box compatibility ProCreate with (Savage Interactive - Procreate) software.

    However there seem to be a few caveats: as it is essentially an enhanced capacitive stylus, it needs to work with the "minimal area of contact" limitation inherent of the technology (please correct me if I'm wrong), so it has one of those funky loop-shaped tips.

    The other may not be a 'caveat' per se, though a point of which I am a little skeptical. Rather than transmitting the pressure data via BlueTooth, the Jaja promises better battery life by using high frequency sound transmission that is received by the iPad's microphone. This -seems- like it would be susceptible to interference, but I'm not a sound tech. or electrician, or even very bright in general, so I may be completely wrong. I'm just wondering if the pressure sensitivity would suffer any inconsistencies due to the technology implemented here.

    Thoughts? I definitely won't shell out for an iPad and prepurchase one of these styluses as I would rather wait for the early adopter bugs to be worked out. Though, at the same time, who knows if production of this product will go beyond the initial Kickstarter release?
  2. Agent 9

    Agent 9 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    It has nothing on a Wacom Active digitizer pen system that works right [not that they have really changed much in the last decade+ anyways]; heck even N-trig is still a leap and bound [or two, or even three] behind Wacom and they have a lot more capital and implementation in many systems

    If you wouldn't go for something like the Q550, Cl900, Slate 2, and Latitude ST with Windows 7, decent battery life and N-trig systems, then don't consider even less than that, My opinion anyways
  3. darkmagistric

    darkmagistric Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    There are a couple of other Ipad/Pressure/Stylus/etc projects on Kickstarter. While I admire the innovation and attempt.......I can't help but feel most if not all of those attempts will never see the light of day. Ten One Design (makers of the Pogo Stlyus) has already managed to rig pressure on the ipad, but Apple won't allow it. And honestly all of these other methods like Bluetooth/sound/etc...I can't ever really see them catching on.
  4. m_hope

    m_hope Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Agent_9: So far, I agree. I already use a Fujitsu T-4215 for my mobile rig and a Cintiq 18SX for all my heavy lifting. The Fujitsu replaced my Toshiba R25 (14" screen real estate was great, but the visibility is awful) and my TC4400 before that (solid, but rife with digitizer defects.) The Fujitsu was a recent purchase because I got such a great buy on it - but in the long run, I'd like to get something more mobile for doing work outside of the home.

    But there's no harm in hoping for a formidable alternative, right?

    darkmagistric: I think it's a little absurd that there isn't a proper pressure sensitive stylus for the iPad, considering how many people in the graphics industries are hardcore Apple users.

    I am also skeptical as to whether or not any of these hackneyed solutions will catch on. Honestly I think that the weird microphone solution is probably better attributed to the developer's need to cut costs, not battery consumption.
  5. storebror

    storebror Scribbler - Standard Member

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    slightly off topic, but I have always wondered. Does kickstart projects get to keep the money even if the project doesn´t happen?

    on topic. I think the hardcore fidelity towards Wacom is slightly hurting the chanses of other companies getting as good.
    Sometimes it feels as though people actually rather have Wacom monopolizing the market. We as consumers would only benefit from having more actors, right?
    Personally I feel that N-trig is coming along, maybe if we dared to step away from wacom others could more easily develop into some real competition.
    I could easily see myself use the Lenovo Tablet for instance...in that case it´s not really N-trig that holds me back(even though from hearing how bad N-trig is all the time it ofcourse worries me)
    Enough of a rant.
  6. mormoop

    mormoop Pen Pal - Newbie

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    The hardcore fidelity to Wacom is well deserved, I think. You can nit pick about certain problems with them, like the Cintiq 12 being 2005 technology in desperate need of an upgrade, but as far as the tablets themselves go they work and work really, really well.

    Anyway artist types tend to be pretty loyal to their tools, in part because the learning curve with a new one is different than the learning curve in other fields and with other technology. It often comes down to the "feel", which is a hard thing to explain why it works or doesn't.
  7. jamesT

    jamesT Pen Pal - Newbie

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    After trying iPad1 for art, I'm definitely a member of the Church of Wacom. Amen brother.

    That sketchbook ink vector app unveiled today for iPad looked neat. Exports over 100 megapixels. Still, it's just not the right approach. No color blending, no pin-point accuracy, and no full featured tools ala Photoshop.

    As a Mac user who jumped on board with the Samsung S7 Slate, I'm looking forward to Windows 8 more than anything for tablets.

    However, I'd love to "fingerpaint" on an iMac Touch….or this:

    Jeff Han has a 27-inch iPad... - YouTube

    …they have an 80" version o_O
  8. acorn

    acorn Weeeeeeeee

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    if you dont care about pen pressure you can create any size touch area using a wii controller (@ james) . however pressure is the key issue and this project doesnt sound like a winner if it still depends on the large surface tip. its to bad really all those lovely pixels on the ipad 3 and no pen pressure to enjoy it.
  9. DaveOnBass

    DaveOnBass Scribbler - Standard Member

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    The Jaja stylus has a tip almost identical to the Adonit Jot, which seems to be the closest to pinpoint accuracy the iPad has these days - a metal ball tip with a clear plastic disc. The plastic lets you see what you're doing and offers the screen a large enough contact point, while the metal 'concentrates' the conductivity to the smallest point possible - the pressure sensitivity is actually using ultrasound picked up by the iPad's mic rather than a bluetooth connection or something; weird but I guess it works.

    I've gotten interested in iPads all over again seeing this kind of advancement in styli - there is also the ByZero Studio pen which uses a receiver and actually gets you hover, palm rejection, and pixel accuracy, but with varying degrees of reliability and very few compatible apps. (Similarly, the Cregle iPen exists, but appears to be a bad implementation of same.)
  10. Shogmaster

    Shogmaster Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    None of these pressure sensitive styli for iPad will give you reliable palm rejection because they rely on existing cap touch for X/Y coordinates, which means you have to draw/jot using hover hand. While Hover hands in pictures on the internet is hilarious, with drawing/writing it is not.

    Forget trying to shoe-horn pressure sensitive and accurate input onto the iPad. It's much easier to go with another tablet that has proper EMR pressure sensitive digitizer, such as the new upcoming Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1.
  11. Bronsky

    Bronsky Wait and Hope. Senior Member

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    What would be ironic is if the new optical technology Microsoft is developing becomes the foundation for a workable pressure sensitive pen on the IPad. That would be odd indeed.
  12. latinvixen

    latinvixen Artist

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    I ended up backing this project..so waiting on it to arrive and give a full review.
  13. thatcomicsguy

    thatcomicsguy Scribbler - Standard Member Senior Member

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    This is really cool!

    I wonder if you can hear the sound? I wonder what frequency it transmits at. I can hear up to around 14,000 Hz. (I had to add sound damping to my recently acquired SSD drive because I could hear the damned thing whining away. Wrapping it in paper towel solved the problem).

    But if it works without irritation, then it's a pretty awesome solution which could be implemented on much larger capacitive touch screens. I hope to see the Jaja get out of the gate.

    Also, I can think of a couple of different implementations which might improve usability. Here's one below:

    acoustic-stylus-drawing.jpg

    The only problem is that palm rejection would have to be added somehow. You'd need to wear a glove like the one in latinvixin's video.

    All in all, not perfect, but I love the process of invention. With time and enough creativity and refinement, I bet you could get this to work at a professional level.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2012
  14. Jax_Cavalera

    Jax_Cavalera Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Just so people know... Wacom are now officially releasing a software driven stylus that will work for the iCrap, yet when I pushed their sales reps about why they won't do this for Windows.. they refused to respond with anything of value.

    Clearly they want Windows owners to spend the big dollars buying their tablets and computers fitted with their Wacom hardware for a lot more chash than the $99 asking price of this stand-alone stylus. Man I despise Wacom so much for that! I hope someone comes out with a driver hack that makes it work on the Windows OS just so we can give them the Virtual Bird.

    As for why I refuse to purchase the iCrap... it's double to 4x the price of alternative hardware that runs Windows so you simply are paying for the Gimmick as if you wanted performance and bang for buck.. you'd be buying windows not IOS. Also, Wacom do not have any modern notebooks with Dedicated Graphics at a price point of under $1800.00 Which if you were able to get the driver for the new stylus to work right.

    you could buy :

    Asus n550JV : 4GB Dedi Graphics, 4th Gen i7 Quad Core CPU, 8 to 16GB Ram and 10 point capacitive multitouch display.. (I own this) and combine it with the pen to make the most brutal 3d/graphics device on the market.

    My notebook only cost $1400 including shipping and this is AUD so other currencies can pick it up even cheaper and it's a solid machine... just missing that pressure pen input.

    Also you are able to comfortably turn the notebook so it's display rests flat on the table and the keyboard stands up (reverse of how it normally looks.. keyboard where display normally is) and with the base area sitting at 90 degrees approx. it puts little to no strain on that wide full display width joint there.. giving you a massive 15.6" tablet workspace.

    again all it needs is the pen.

    I'm looking into Leap Motion to see if someone will output a full function app that lets you use pen-like objects for pressure detection.. and also into several other contenders.. whoever gets into this gaping market hole first will make a good deal of cash in sales of their pen pressure device solution... I can just see this notebook I own going nuts in sales as every man and his dog lines up to buy them and then that pen that gives the pressure support.. inspirational and hopeful!

    p.s. that standalone pen gives 2048 levels of pressure as well with estimated 300hours usage or something... I'd prefer an option with a usb rechargable dock.. similar to the jot touch pro (i think that's the one with it)
  15. Nicholas8681

    Nicholas8681 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    I have yet to try the Wacom stylus, but I've tried nearly all the other options. The JaJa was the best of the bunch and offered the smoothest line thickness/transparency transitions. And with the Teflon tip it moved smoothly along the surface, unlike the other options.

    The only things we are missing to allow the iPad to work with notes, art, etc is location coordinates of the stylus and good pal rejection. Interesting enough the latest iOS did add some stuff to the API that could allow location info. But palm rejection is mixed. Penultimate has a decent implementation, but you lose multitouch gestures system wide.


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Similar Threads: Jaja Pressure
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