I think I'm just not destined to have Windows 10 on my T901

Discussion in 'Fujitsu' started by Selofain, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. rcxAsh

    rcxAsh Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    31
    I know right? I wonder if it's also partially due to the relative complexity of the NVIDIA Optimus solution. My sister had a Windows 8 computer with an NVIDIA GeForce card and Intel graphics and when it updated to Windows 8.1, she lost the ability to use the GeForce card as well. Actually at first, she was always getting a blank screen until we sorted out drivers using an external display attached with a USB graphics adapter. But after that, trying to run anything with the NVIDIA card would always run with the Intel one... Perhaps if it was 100% pure NVIDIA (or 100% pure Intel), it would be easier...

    Nevertheless, I found a listing of NVIDIA drivers here:
    http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-branch-history-table.html

    The driver that I tried above in NVIDIA's numbering scheme is "R331 U1 (331.65)". I found that you can search the NVIDIA website for the driver numbers and find the download pages that way (as Google may also point to packages from other manufacturers). I also noticed that there are different pages for the same driver versions for GeForce and Quadro. Older versions also split Quadro into Desktop and Notebook.

    Based on a quick run through of a few of these, it looks to me that the first official Windows 10 drivers started coming out with R352 U2 (353.30) - at least, it looked like the version just before that, R352 U1 (353.06) was only listed for Windows 7/8/8.1.

    Interestingly, starting with that version, there are actually multiple downloads available for the same driver version but for different operating systems. For example, R352 U2 (353.30) has separate downloads for Windows 7/8/8.1, and Windows 10. The contents of the installation packages are different too. Some files are binary different, and there are also files that exist in one package, but not in the other, and vice versa.

    I'll have to try to setup my T901 to boot from a second hard drive to make switching between my Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 disks easier for testing out some of these driver combinations. Hopefully that is possible with a SATA tray in the expansion bay.
     
  2. rcxAsh

    rcxAsh Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ok, another try! I worked through trying various driver versions and the latest one that I was able to install was 348.40. This was one of the last Windows 8.1 drivers before Windows 10 drivers became officially available as far as I can tell. There was one more release version after that, 353.06, which would not work properly (yellow icon in Device Manager). Newer drivers, for Windows 10, after that, always exhibited the freezing issue (freeze when attempting to activate the NVIDIA GPU).

    348.40, however, appears to work properly. I tried loading up the two games I used for verification earlier (Race the Sun and Crysis 2) and this time, they both appeared to use the NVIDIA GPU!

    So, so far, the conclusion seems to be: use the Intel drivers from Fujitsu, and use the NVIDIA Quadro driver version 348.40 from NVIDIA. Here is the direct link to the download page: http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/90919/en-us

    I think I might try to make the jump to Windows 10 now. May need a bit more testing to get setup right, but now at least my biggest concern appears to be resolvable. (Hopefully not speaking too soon here...)

    Here is a screenshot of Crysis 2 loaded showing the GPU under load:
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Selofain likes this.
  3. Selofain

    Selofain Chronic Lurker

    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    41
    That's some fantastic testing, thanks for doing all that! Too bad I didn't find that Nvidia page- I couldn't decipher the numbering scheme nor find older drivers without it. And downloading the latest Win8 driver only got me a "your hardware isn't compatible" complaint.
     
    rcxAsh likes this.
  4. rcxAsh

    rcxAsh Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    31
    No problem, I never thought to try Windows 10 again until you mentioned you had it working! Your tip to get the drivers setup while disconnected from WiFi really helped. It really feels like a whole different computer now. It's amazing how big of a different software makes to the user experience. Windows 8.1 was not bad, but 10 just feels more polished. Hopefully this will give this 5 year old T901 some further lease on life.
     
  5. Starlight5

    Starlight5 I'm a cat. What else is there to say, really?

    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    41
    @Selofain @rcxAsh does NVS 4200M really make a lot of difference vs HD 3000 on T901? I thought they were almost the same in terms of performance.
     
  6. rcxAsh

    rcxAsh Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    31
    @Starlight5, by today's standards, neither of them are really great in performance, but when compared directly to each other, the NVS 4200M does out-perform the Intel HD 3000.

    As a quick comparison, I ran the 3DMark Cloud Gate benchmark twice (once for each graphics adapter) and got the following scores on my machine:

    Intel HD 3000: 1683
    NVIDIA NVS 4200M: 2939


    In the graphics score specifically (I guess not taking into account the physics tests):

    Intel HD 3000: 1583
    NVIDIA NVS 4200M: 3235


    So neither of these are really great scores if you go and look at 3DMark Cloud Gate scores from actual gaming machines, but it does make a difference when comparing the two against each other (NVS 4200M's score is double the HD 3000's!).
     
    Starlight5 likes this.
  7. Selofain

    Selofain Chronic Lurker

    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    41
    The only tangible differences I see are when using Photoshop or the 3D model in Clip Studio Paint. On Intel, the background outside the canvas flashed every time I moved the canvas, and it stopped once I had Photoshop only use the NVS. In CSP, the 3D model was noticeably laggier to adjust on Intel instead of NVS.

    There's probably differences in 3D modeling programs as well, but my CPU was such a chokepoint that I never saw any difference. (3D modeling is hard and I don't get it. :( I've given up on it until I get better hardware.)
     
  8. Selofain

    Selofain Chronic Lurker

    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Gah. Every time I think this saga is finally over, Windows 10 says NOPE. I'm starting to feel like dstrauss and his Surfaces.

    This past weekend, I decided to update my T901 to Creators Update. I've already done my TPT2, and I like it, and I'd have to upgrade eventually anyway, so may as well hop on it, right? I suspected that the in-place upgrade would fail. Windows Cumulative updates have been failing for the past few weeks, and I couldn't figure out the problem. (I ended up just hiding the updates, especially since I knew Creators Update was coming up.)

    The Upgrade Assistant failed, so I did a clean installation. Then, so my ever so unpleasant surprise, Windows Update installed the NVS driver.

    Hiding the update using wushowhide does nothing. I suspect they may need to update it for Creators Update. Deleting it from the driver store does nothing. The only thing that worked was brute force- I blocked all driver installations with its hardware ID in Group Policy.

    Windows Update still tries to install it. I did learn, though, that if it does manage to install it, I can disable the NVS in Device Manager, and after a restart I don't get the bug. Great, but now I can't use the NVS.

    I can't figure out how to block Windows Update from installing any driver updates. I definitely need to do this, because one of the other drivers installed messes things up. It kills all digitizer input- pen, touch, graphics tablets. Reinstalling their drivers restores it, but it's buggy.

    It also kind of messed up my NVS driver. For some reason, over a couple of attempts, the NVS would disappear from Device Manager. Reinstalling the driver (PITA, as I have to reverse the Group Policy first) didn't bring it back. Or else it would cause the Intel HD 3000 to disappear, and reinstalling that driver didn't bring it back.

    Also, attempt to reset instead of clean installing turned out to be a huge mistake. I guess reset doesn't remove drivers, because A) it took way longer than clean installing and B) I got the same freezing when Windows attempt to set up. That really sucked because I couldn't get into the BIOS or boot menu to wipe and start over. Because, HAHA, you need to turn off Fast Boot first! And I couldn't get into Windows to turn it off, and I couldn't boot from USB. I had to pull the drive and wipe it from another computer.

    (Safe mode, I learned, doesn't work either because the NVS, being a display adapter, is considered an "essential" driver even though all they need is the Intel display adapter.)

    I think I clean installed Creators Update four times over the weekend. Right now, despite not doing much different from previous attempts, I have both NVS and Intel installed, and all pen digitizers are working.

    BUT.

    Input is super buggy. And this is definitely the fault of one of the drivers updated via Windows Update, because everything worked just fine before that. I have trouble clicking anything (using graphics tablet, touchpad, anything). Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's not frozen, but clicking doesn't work. Full functionality usually comes back if I wait a bit. It's worse in Chrome, but I was having minor Chrome responsiveness issues before the update. I guess the update exacerbated it. It's not an acceptable situation.

    But there's nothing I can do about it if I want internet access. As soon as I turn on internet, boom! Windows Update unpleasantness. The usual methods of telling Windows not to install updates didn't work. I have a couple other things I want to try (more Group Policy edits I found since last night) before fully giving up (and going back to Win8, possibly).

    As an aside, I got a BIOS driver update today from Windows Update that didn't come with the initial batch yesterday. Frustratingly, there is no information on what this update is or does. Does it fix the NVS problem? Am I willing to nuke my current installation to find out? (Not yet.)
     
  9. Selofain

    Selofain Chronic Lurker

    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Well, I'm baffled.

    I dual-booted a second Win10 installation so I could futz around with it to see what would stop Windows Update from installing those drivers. Conclusion: absolutely nothing.

    No matter what settings I changed in Group Policy (and forced their update, because apparently they don't automatically take effect), Windows installed drivers. "Do not include drivers with Windows Update" should have been sufficient to stop them. Nope.

    On the bright side, I figured out what was causing the input madness. I decided to disable, one by one, all the drivers installed by Windows Update to see what was causing the issue. First try- it was the bluetooth. That's another device id I'll have to add to the brute force Group Policy.

    This... really shouldn't have been as hard as it was.

    Edit: Spoke too soon. It wasn't the bluetooth. It's definitely something interfering with input. It feels similar to the issue I had on the TPT2, where the newest Wacom driver changed the input to Cntrl+Win after a couple minutes.

    Edit 2: Went with my hunch and replaced the Windows Update Touchpad driver with the original touchpad driver. Looking good so far. Fingers crossed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017 at 2:38 AM
  10. rcxAsh

    rcxAsh Scribbler - Standard Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Thanks for the update on the situation, @Selofain. Guess I will have to cross my fingers too for when the update hits me. I've had the NVS driver installation locked via the GPO method since day one of getting Windows 10 stable on my T901 (I couldn't seem to get any of the other methods working - Windows update always went ahead and updated to the latest versions). Even now, Windows update will still try to install the latest incompatible version of the NVIDIA driver, but at least the installation just keeps on failing now, so it doesn't remove the working driver.

    Will see if any problems occur for me when the update arrives naturally (I'm hesitant to force anything after hearing your experiences).

    I understand the importance of running the latest version of software for security and bug-fix purposes, but this is taking it a bit too far... with no clear way to opt-out of updates it assumes that the newest versions always work the best, which clearly isn't the case!
     
Loading...

Share This Page