HP's USB-c charger lock crisis explained

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard' started by alisaad619, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I think with new bios firmware it might even work while turned on (though slowly).
    Did you try charging over one of the thunderbolt 3 ports as well?
    The spectre 13 single usb-c gen1 port requst charging at 15V 3A (confirmed by gtrusted) and I think that the two thunderbolt 3 ports (like tb3 ports on elite x2 and elitebook folio) only accept 12V 3A. The macbook charger can only support 5V and 15V. So I would guess that it won't work on the two tb3 ports.
     
  2. Eutechnyx

    Eutechnyx Pen Pal - Newbie

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    How to get this mystic 6.26 update?
    HP website have no BIOSes even with such filename mask.
    Their bioses have F.XX naming. Preinstalled support app shows "up-to-date" status without any bios updates since August. My current installed bios is F.26, so if it was someone's misspelling F.26 -> 6.26, that's a mistake and this is not new bios version but old august 6.26.

    So, to be charged from all 3 ports, AC adapter should be able to provide 12V?
    If so, whether this Targus should work?
     

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    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  3. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I think bios F.26 Rev.A from Aug. 12 is the right firmware. It says "Expands support for the USB Type-C adaptor" in description.

    Did you did test the tb3 ports with the apple charger and it did not work?

    I think the targus charger, should work on both ports since it has the 12V rail. Probably the 60W google charger works on all ports as well (if the usb-c port takes 12V as well and not only 15V). Other than that, you can only use the 45W hp chargers, which all support 12V and 15V.
    Unfortunately the 12V power rail in usb-c is dying out and more and more replaced by the 9V rail (which is preferred by phone makers). To my knowledge, HP is the only manufacturer that used 12V for their tb3 ports (all others use 20V). Since those 12V ports were locked by charger drm on most hp devices anyways, there is little motivation for third party manufacturers to support 12V.
    Therefore (now that DRM is gone for this device) the 15V capable usb-c gen1 port in the spectre 13 can be a big advantage when all future usb-c chargers will only have 5V, 9V, 15V and 20V support. I have always wondered, why hp even included a third usb-c gen1 port, when there were already two "better" tb3/usb-c gen2 ports on the device. Probably because of charging. Besides compatibility, 15V 3A (45W) charges 25% faster that 12V 3A (36W).
     
  4. Deepak Munjal

    Deepak Munjal Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Is this the Spectre X2 that has a new bios?
     
  5. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    In the customer reviews on amazon for the "Plugable USB-C Triple Display Docking Station with Charging Support/Power Delivery " someone wrote: "Works with new HP Sprectre X360 (Kaby Lake) for those wondering.". So it seems, also no DRM on the Spectre x360 with Kabylake. HP is learning!
     
  6. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Good news: I found a usb-c car charger with the 12V 3A profile and verified that it charges the HP Elite X2 1012: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-..._8&btsid=be80161b-bf5b-4442-9ac7-a3059b940645
    I think it is now save to say that any USB Type-c power delivery charger with the 12V 3A profile will support the Elite X2. Too bad there are so few!
    This also opens new possibilities for cheap power bank solutions for the elite x2. Combined with a cigarette lighter adapters like this: https://www.amazon.com/Cigarette-Li...rd_wg=Hi5cp&psc=1&refRID=KVK5YF62NWW7XP168FGV and a jump starter powerbank you can get a powerpack solution for the elite x2 for less than 100$ total.
     
  7. Tate

    Tate Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I found the solution for the HP Pavilion X2 Detachable 12 (model# 12-B017CA) was to install the older BIOS firmware (F.05.RevA from Jan 4, 2016).
    Every so often the laptop's updates have updated the bios so I keep the older firmware's installer handy to reinstall.
     
  8. Eutechnyx

    Eutechnyx Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Today arrived my "compatible" type-c charger from Udoli, model PD60, 60W.
    Except extreme low-quality included type-c to type-c cable, charger itself really well made and working perfectly with HP Spectre 13-v002, while laptop is turned on or while been shut off, no matter.
    Although adapter have no declared 12V output support (5, 9, 15, 20 are listed only), it charges Spectre on all three ports available.
    Bios F.26.
    I'm really happy i can use this compatible slim adapter with my slim logitech mice to be carried with this slim laptop in a slim bag, lol.

    So, as for now you can use any compatible adapter with new HP laptops. No matter it'll be original HP, or "compatible" like Udoli, Targus, Innergie, Chromebook or any other.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  9. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Very nice! Thank you for your efforts! So the Spectre 13-v002 and the Pavilion X2 12 work well with non-HP chargers if you install the correct BIOS. In case of the Spectre X2 12 I would have never expected that old BIOS firmware was more compatible than the current one, since HP did this DRM stuff right from the very start. I will try to reproduce this with my sister's Pavilion x2 12 and also test the old BIOSes for my brother's Pavilion x2 10, as soon as I visit them the next time.
    In my experienced usb-c on the spectre and pavilion devices was crippled in 2 ways. 1) Non HP chargers were blocked. 2) Docking stations and usb-c hubs with charge through were blocked (even those made by hp). So even if 1) now works does not mean that 2) is fixed as well.
    @Tate and @Eutechnyx it would be great if you could test some usb-c hub with charge through (such as: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DTQZTX4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A142BGUZC6UH73) with those BIOS versions? If this worked, it would be a giant improvement especially for the spectre x2 12 because the usb 3.0 capability would no longer be unavailable while charging! Being limited to one type-a usb 2.0 port while the charger blocks the type-c usb 3.0 port is such a huge design flaw. If hp did not implement usb-c charge through capability for whatever reasons, they should have built the tablet the other way round with the usb 3.0 lanes connected to the standard type-a port and the type-c port only being usb 2.0 (like they did in the pavilion x2 10). But then they could not have advertised usb 3.1.
     
  10. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I tried the F.05.RevA from Jan 4, 2016 bios firmware on a HP Pavilion X2 and it did not remove charger DRM here. After that I tried all other available bios versions: Same result. Only HP chargers work, no charge through hubs!.
     
    kvoram likes this.
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