HP's USB-c charger lock crisis explained

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard' started by alisaad619, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. Ispcolohost

    Ispcolohost Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Keep in mind that even if the DRM stuff were not getting in the way, the Anker kind of stinks either way since it can only output 30 watts on the USB-C via its 15v / 2A charge rate (it also supports a few other lower wattage options), it won't rapid charge apple products, and its type A ports are all lower amperage 5v-only ports, so no turbo charging on any devices that support it. I have one, but never use it since I spend far less time charging when I throw a proprietary charger on each device. Strictly for the HP, it would be a third slower to charge than the HP adapter if it were supported (at 30w vs 45w) and given the HP adapter for wall voltages is only $10 more, I'd just get the HP on amazon http://amzn.to/2cTdjBC Not sure about car options, that's obviously a much different issue.
     
  2. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    This whole usb-c charging with hp products is much more complicated than I thought. I just found out, that the elite x2 charges at 12V 3A, not at 15V 3A as I thought. The information is actually printed to the base of the tablet but I never looked. On the base of the pavilion x2 12 on the other hand, they print 15V 3A. Probably that is the reason, why all hp chargers support 15V, even if the devices they come with only use 12V. The reason why hp had to go for 12V instead of 15V might have to do with a limitation of the thunderbolt 3 controller, which I think only supports 12V (HP) and 20V (Dell). Unfortunately, in the latest usb power delivery specification (3.0), the 12V charging rail was replaced by the 9V charging rail. All chargers I tested above, follow this new specification and therefore support 5V, 9V, 15V and 20V but not 12V. I think this is why it did not work with the elite x2, not because of a charging DRM. I still think that the elite x2 has no charging DRM and therefore works with any usb-c charger that has the 12V rail. This means that the 60W google pixel charger, which I always thought would not work because it doesn't have the 15V rail, should in fact charge the elite x2. I have not tested that but the folks at gtrusted tested it with the elitebook folio g1 (like elite x2 has TB3 and no DRM) and it worked: http://gtrusted.com/review/google-u...ok-pc-w8h05pa-through-its-thunderbolt-3-ports
    Since the Verizon usb-c car charger also supports 12V 2.5A, I am now relatively optimistic that it should work with the elite x2.
    Also interesting: Back in february the pavilion x2 12 would not charge with the elite x2 charger. After a bios update it now charges with the elite x2 charger but still not with 3rd party chargers. So at least hp updated their charger whitelist to all hp charger models. Docking stations are also still ignored for charging by the pavilion x2, no matter if the dock is made by hp or not.

    So at a glance there are two factors determining usb-c compatibility of hp computers:
    1) Business vs consumer products:
    Elite (and Chromebook): no charger DRM
    Pavilion and Spectre: charger DRM which restricts charging to HP chargers and (maybe unintentionally) breaks the charge through functionality of all (both hp and 3rd party!) usb-c and thunderbolt 3 docks
    2) Pure USB-C vs Thunderbolt 3 products
    USB-C: charge at 15V
    Thunderbolt 3: charge at 12V

    This means:
    For Spectre and Pavilion only the rectangular 45W charger that ships with those devices and (with latest bios) also the much nicer looking 45W charger with round edges that ships with the elite series will work.

    For the HP EliteBook 1030 G1 (no DRM, USB-C) the 45W HP chargers, the Anker PowerPort+ 5 Premium 5-Port 60W, the RAVPower Type-C Charger 36W 2-Port, the iVoler 75W USB Type C Charger and the Innergie PowerGear Slim USB Typ-C but not the Google 60W Universal Type-C charger will work because it requires 15V.

    The Elite X2 and the Elitebook Folio G1 (no DRM, Thunderbolt 3) on the other hand will only work with the 45W HP chargers, the 45W Innergie PowerGear Slim USB Typ-C and the Google 60W Universal Type-c charger because they require 12V.

    Hope this makes things clearer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
  3. Ispcolohost

    Ispcolohost Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Ah good catch. Yeah, I just checked my Elite X2 as well, and the OEM charger that came with it. X2 shows 12v 3A, OEM charger TPN-CA02 label mentions output options of 5v/2A, 12v/3A, 15v/3A. My Anker "60w" charger only has 5v,9v,15v,20v options on the USB-C port.
     
  4. kjlietz

    kjlietz Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Interesting read: PC-World article about the non interchangeability of some USB-C chargers.
    Quote:
    "After speaking with HP officials about the issue, it appears the company is just playing it safe. Fearing that a counterfeit or out-of-spec charger could make the touchscreen or audio subsystem flaky, HP has limited the access non-certified chargers have to the device. For now, HP exec Mike Nash told us, only “overnight” charging, or charging while the device is off, is supported."​

    Did anyone try this, charging when the device is off?
     
  5. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Yes, charging with non-HP charger while the device is off does not work. So this is just misinformation!
     
  6. Ryanm77

    Ryanm77 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Has anyone tested this issue with the newly released Spectre x360 -13-w063nr (with 7th gen Core processor and Thunderbolt 3)? I'm really hoping that HP has unshackled these devices because I'd really like to be able to charge my laptop using the monitor I'm going to have it plugged into (an LG 38UC99-W that supports USB-C charging). Beyond that, I'd really like to be able to use something like a Razer Core for external graphics via Thunderbolt 3, but I have heard that HP has disabled that as well. HP should really publish exactly what restrictions they are putting in place with each of these devices. If I can't do either one of those things, I'm buying something else, but I don't have an easy way of determining if it's possible.
     
  7. Ryanm77

    Ryanm77 Pen Pal - Newbie

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  8. Ryanm77

    Ryanm77 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Spot on. The U in USB has a meaning. There would be an uproar if HP arbitrarily restricted you from plugging in a Logitech mouse to a USB 2 port, and this is the same concept exactly. The point of implementing a standard is that it's done in a standard way so that it will work universally. I'm in the process of deciding whether or not to buy the new TB3 Spectre, and if I can't confirm that the USB-C ports are lacking these restrictions, I'll be getting a Macbook Pro or a Dell XPS 13. Or maybe a Razer. Basically anything that doesn't arbitrarily cripple a technology that is meant to be universal.
     
  9. Eutechnyx

    Eutechnyx Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I can confirm that HP Spectre 13-v011 is charging while turned off from Apple A1540 29W Type-C charger.
     

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  10. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    It seems that hp has released a firmware update for the spectre 13 that removes charger DRM: http://gtrusted.com/review/hp-spect...w-usb-type-c-charger-using-usb-power-delivery
    Glad they realized their mistake and fixed it. Hopefully they are following this way with the other spectre and pavilion models as well.
    Anyone with a spectre 13 tested the aukey docking station with power pass through with the new firmware? It might work now.
     
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