HP's USB-c charger lock crisis explained

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard' started by alisaad619, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. alisaad619

    alisaad619 Scribbler - Standard Member

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    it's confirmed that the dock T3V74AA charge the Spectre x2 (someone here bought it and confirmed that it charge the spectre x2)

    the battery pack is an unsolved mystery , for now I don't know an option that work


    here a quote about the dock with spectre x2

    he bought it from provantage, it's 125$ now

    http://www.provantage.com/hp-n2s60ut-aba~7CMPH0Y3.htm
     
  2. Saravana

    Saravana Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I use this dock with my Spectre X2 everyday and it works as intended. Let me know if you have any questions.
     
  3. Deepak Munjal

    Deepak Munjal Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I'm liking it too. It still acts up at times coming out of standby, though.
     
  4. megavinz2000

    megavinz2000 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Ok thanks ! It's a good new.

    I hope it will work with the Pavilion X2.
     
  5. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    I have some new test results. So far I tested:
    - the hp elite x2 1012 (needs no HP charging DRM, needs 3A@15V)
    - the hp pavilion x2 12 (needs HP charging DRM, needs 3A@15V)
    - the hp pavilion x2 10 (needs HP charging DRM, needs 3A@5V)
    with:
    - the 45W elite x2 charger (has no HP charging DRM, supports 2A@5V, 3A@12V and 3A@15V)
    - the 45W pavilion x2 12 charger (has HP charging DRM, supports 2A@5V, 3A@12V and 3A@15V)
    - the 15W pavilion x2 10 chager (has no HP charging DRM, supports 3A@5V)
    - the 60W hp thunderbolt 3 dock (has no HP charging DRM, provided voltage and amps unclear)
    - the 60W hp elite usb c dock (has no HP charging DRM, provided voltage and amps unclear)
    - the 45W HP USB-C to 3.0mm and 4.5mm Adapter (has HP charging DRM, supports 3A@5V and 3A@15V)

    Results:
    The 45W pavilion x2 12 charger and the 45W HP USB-C to 3.0mm and 4.5mm Adapter charged all devices because they supported both 5V and 15V and had the charging DRM.
    The hp pavilion x2 10 only worked with the hp pavilion x2 10 because it only supports 5V (although HP charging DRM is present).
    The elite x2 charger, the hp thunderbolt 3 dock and the hp elite x2 dock only worked with the elite x2. This is a shame since there is no technical reason for them not work with the other devices other than the lack of charging drm. It's also a riddle to me why hp did not include the charging drm into them, they are hp chargers after all.
     
  6. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Earlier in this thread someone wrote he does not care about the hp charging drm because hp offers chargers that work and that are not more expensive than the third party chargers. This might be right. However, my problem with the drm are not the wall chargers but more specialized products like docking stations.
    For people wondering which docis compatible to their hp tablet, here my experience so far:
    The Elite USB-C Dock:
    Some people confirmed that the hp elite usb-c dock works with the spectre x2, which is why I initially thought it had the hp charging drm circuit inside, needed to work with all hp tablets beside the elite. However, I can confirm, that it definitly does not charge the pavilion x2 12 nor the pavilion x2 10.
    Another thing to note about this dock is that it relies on a built in displaylink converter rather than native displayport over usb-c alt mode. Displaylink is probably the best tech for a monitor over a usb-a connection. However, when compared to the new displayport alt mode for usb-c, displaylink chips are expensive, take a lot of cpu resources and the display signal gets compressed because it has to share the normal usb data bandwidth. In my opinion, the only reason for hp to go with this technology here would be to ensure compatibilty with the pavilion x2 12 and the pavilion x2 10 (both have no support for displayport alt mode in their usb type-c ports). However they even messed this up by the stupid decision not to let those two devices charge with this dock.

    In fact, this means that there is not a single usb-c dock so far that works with the pavilion x2 12 or the pavilion x2 10. For the pavilion x2 12 that means, that you cannot use usb 3.0 and charge at the same time with this tablet, which is an outrageous design flaw in my eyes.
     
  7. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    For the elite x2 the situation is a lot better, because it supports both displayport and thunderbolt 3 alt mode and does not have the drm, hence giving you all possible choice with docks:
    HP tb3 dock:
    The hp thunderbolt dock is by far the most powerful solution for the elite x2. It offers a 40gbps PCIe Bridge over that it can send:
    4x USB 3.0 (4x unshared full 5gbps bandwidth)
    1x gigabit ethernet (connected over PCIe, therefore bandwith is not shared with the usb ports)
    1x headphone jack
    1x VGA and 2x Displayport (share 17,4 gbps displayport bandwidth)
    1x usb-c 3.1 port (10gpbs usb 3.1 bandwidth and another 17,4 gbps displayport bandwidth). This port is also usable for tb3 daisy chaining.
    1x HP 4,5mm power connector

    The only problem for this dock is the high price.

    HP elite usb-c dock:
    Although it works, I would no recommend this dock for the elite x2. This dock is actually a type-a dock with a type-c plug. It only uses the 5gbps USB 3.0 bandwith for all its connections:
    1x displaylink usb 3.0 adapter (offers 1x hdmi + 1x DP)
    1x usb 3.0 gigabit lan adapter
    1x standard usb 3.0 port
    1x usb-c 3.0 port
    3x usb 2.0 ports
    1x usb 2.0 audio adapter for 3.5 mm jack
    1x HP 4,5mm power connector

    The bandwidth bottleneck could impact performance and the price is still very high.

    AUKEY USB C Powered Hub with Type-C Input Charging Port:
    I would recomend this to everyone who is not willing to pay 200+ $ for the thunderbolt dock or needs something compact). This adapter uses 5gbps USB 3.0 and 8,7gbps displayport alt-mode bandwidth for:
    1x hdmi (utilizes 8,7gbps over displayport alt mode)
    4x USB 3.0 ports (share 5gbps usb 3.0 bandwidth)
    1x usb-c charge-through port

    I use this adapter not as a stationary dock but on the go for powerpoint presentations. It lets me connect a projector and multiple usb drives without having to worry about running out of charge.
     
  8. Sephstyler

    Sephstyler Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hi all,

    Thanks for all of your hard work so far in debunking the mystery that is HP's approach to USB-C.

    I've recently picked up a HP Spectre 13 (the new, thinnest in the world* one). 13-v004TU.

    It has 3 USB-Cs, 1 of which is USB 3.0gen 1 and 2 which are TB3.

    Wondering if anyone has had any experience with this? I'm looking for:

    1. Dock with Displayport or DVI-D, USB-A legacy ports (2?) and USB - C / TB3 (2?) and power passthrough.
    2. An additional charger - if there is a third party one that perhaps also supports QualComm QC3.0 (my phone) then that would be awesome, but I doubt there is one on the market.
    3. Any powerbank that can also charge the Spectre (even if slower) - I understand this may not be possible, but i guess perhaps one day the BIOS may be changed to allow such a thing?

    I've looked at some of the messages above, and I can only assume that mine would be somewhat similar to the Elite X2? which means the very pricey HP TB3 Dock may be the way to go...?
     
  9. Sephstyler

    Sephstyler Pen Pal - Newbie

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    TB3. How do you identify if a HP charger has Charging DRM? is there something distinguishing that we can identify?
     
  10. thunderbolt3

    thunderbolt3 Pen Pal - Newbie

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    Hi,
    Unfortunately I did not test the spectre 13. Since HP lists the same thunderbolt 3 dock that I use for the elite x2 as compatible I would assume that the two TB3 ports behave exactly like the port on the elite x2.

    1) You actually have a lot of options for docking. I would try this usb-c alternate mode dock to start with: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B7M5SMY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A142BGUZC6UH73
    You mentioned a QC 3.0 phone. For the LG G5 I know for sure (http://www.slashgear.com/lg-g5-can-connect-to-lgs-usb-c-4k-monitor-16444550/) (most likely also the HTC 10) that not only QC 3.0 charging but also USB PD is supported. Both phones also support displayport alt mode and usb otg. I cannot guarrantee because I did not test it but most likely, those two phones will support all features (charging, hdmi and usb a) of the anker dock as well. However, the anker dock needs a seperate usb-c charger and the QC3 chargers most likely won't work (the whole chain has to be USB PD) and it wouldn't be powerful enough for the notebook anyways. I would recommend to combine this dock with one of the two chargers I recommend in 2).

    2) Chargers: At the very beginning usb-c chargers supported 5V, 12V and 20V. An example would be the chromebook pixel charger. Each device requests the voltage it needs meaning a phone (with USB PD implemented such as Lumia 950) would ask for 5V and a chromebook pixel for 20V which the charger can do. The problem is that later on, the usb pd spec added two more rails: 9V (lg g5 can take advantage of that for fast charging but also works with 5V) and 15V (apple and hp use this). Therefore you would want a charger that supports 15V for your HP spectre 13. You could either take this: http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-45w-usb-c-ac-adapter which has 5V (only 2A though!), 12V and 15V.
    or this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0188PAD00/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (5V, 12V, 15V and 20V)

    3) Powerbanks:This is a problem! So far there is no powerbank that properly implements USB-PD. All powerbanks with usb-c ports only support 5V 3A which is only good for phones. Some big usb-c devices like the chromebook pixel or the macbook air can still trickle charge with 5V. The thunderbolt 3 controller however does not! And this has nothing to do with hp as it is also true for dell and razor. Ironically at first the thunderbolt 3 controller did support 5V trickle charging, however for unknown reasons intel decided to remove that feature in late 2015 with firmware updates. Devices that were out before that (dell xps 13 and 15) can still get that feature back by flashing an old bios version before that date (risking to have other bugs). However with hp we don't have that option as our devices were not even out yet at that time. I hope that intel gives us 5V charging back in the future, but my hope is dim. One think that I am curious about is how the Plugable TBT3-UD1 will work if it only supports 5V charging as stated on their homepage. It was probably designed before intel charged their mind, but we will see.
    For now you can buy a 20V DC powerbank with a hp barrel connector and Combine it with a hp usb-c to 3.0mm and 4.5mm adapter. It will work (tested it), but will be ugly (2 brigs) and expensive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016

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